Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

southp wrote:

stip wrote:Man, that outro to life wasted is just so good. What a terrible terrible terrible fade

Can you tell if the instrumental take is more or less the one used on the album? I haven't compared, but the one time I listened to this new version, it was clearer than ever that they should've let the solo play out until the end.

It's not identical, since the soloing that appears during the final chorus is absence in the demo. The outro solo may be the same. It's certainly very close. I'll need to compare it to the 6 songs S/T leak, which also had a full version of life wasted

The base track is the same. The album version has some guitar overdubs (like the guitar in the final chorus you mentioned), different vocals, and is mixed and mastered. But Jeff & Matt's performance appears to be identical.

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

These leaks also aren't -- as far as I can tell anyway, I haven't had the opportunity to grab them yet -- completed outtakes. It's easy to say, "Oh, this could have been so cool if they had just made it into a proper song," but "The Fixer" should stand as evidence that even PJ's most hated, least adventurous-sounding songs can start out as eccentric, arty brainstorming sessions before ultimately being run through the filter. Best to take these kinds of things for what they are, rather than be caught with your pants down when "Only Cloud in the Sky" comes back to haunt you in the form of a song that sounds like "Amongst the Waves."

I love Amongst The Waves. One of the highlights of Backspacer, my 5th favourite PJ album.

Then it sounds like you would absolutely want to get caught with your pants down in the previously described situation.

For what it's worth, Only Cloud In The Sky is the only track from these leaked ones which immediately hit me as good and something which could actually be really, really good if worked on. 2x4 took a few listens. The rest I've pretty much all but forgotten. I'm not going gaga over this leak but I'll take new PJ songs or song sketches happily any day.

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

No doubt some people felt that way all along. But there was a clearly a revival/rehabilitation of Binaural (and Riot Act) that occurred over the years after the initial release--at least in terms of their perceptions on the board. And I think it's fair to say that the existence of the Lost Dogs tracks caused people to come back and look at Binaural in a different way or look closer. An altered context can change the way you hear a song or an album. And the obsession people have with retracking binaural certainly indicates that not everyone is in love with every song on it.

No artist should strive to make albums where everyone is in love with every song on it. That's how you get Lightning Bolt.

theplatypus wrote:No artist should strive to make albums where everyone is in love with every song on it.

true, very true

theplatypus wrote:That's how you get Lightning Bolt.

i don't know

That second part was a cheap shot. But yeah.

I'm now considering that Stone & Jeff deliberately didn't invite Ed out to Montana when they started writing Backspacer because they were so annoyed he didn't go hog wild after some of these demos and vetoed LIR and CC. But, somehow still okayed Inside Job.

Alas, the benevolent dictator still got his way with the rejiggering of Backspacer anyway. No one wins.

I love Lightning Bolt.

I'm a fan too, Release.

stip wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

No doubt some people felt that way all along. But there was a clearly a revival/rehabilitation of Binaural (and Riot Act) that occurred over the years after the initial release--at least in terms of their perceptions on the board. And I think it's fair to say that the existence of the Lost Dogs tracks caused people to come back and look at Binaural in a different way or look closer. An altered context can change the way you hear a song or an album. And the obsession people have with retracking binaural certainly indicates that not everyone is in love with every song on it.

There's one thing all rationalisation in the world can't change regarding the last 2 records compared to the rest of their catalogue. They never relegated any part of the songwriting/arranging process to any producer before. This alone affects the music in a noticeable way. A good part of Binaural may be "difficult" but they did some amazing job on that record as far as individual songs are concerned. Those songs sound as if, for the most part, they still cared how each individual part sounds in the context of the whole song. Today they sound amateurish in comparison. There's something tacky about their new sound - it's like there's too much of everything.
I wonder if people like the demos so much simply because they aren't as "busy" as what ends on the albums.

stip wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

No doubt some people felt that way all along. But there was a clearly a revival/rehabilitation of Binaural (and Riot Act) that occurred over the years after the initial release--at least in terms of their perceptions on the board. And I think it's fair to say that the existence of the Lost Dogs tracks caused people to come back and look at Binaural in a different way or look closer. An altered context can change the way you hear a song or an album. And the obsession people have with retracking binaural certainly indicates that not everyone is in love with every song on it.

I don't buy that logic at all regarding Binaural.

These instrumental/rough demos inspired me to pull out the band's pre-Vedder instrumental recordings again ("The Gossman Project"):



I particularly dig Weird A (at 21:44 in the above video), the 1990 progenitor of what became Animal.

EJ wrote:I'm now considering that Stone & Jeff deliberately didn't invite Ed out to Montana when they started writing Backspacer because they were so annoyed he didn't go hog wild after some of these demos and vetoed LIR and CC. But, somehow still okayed Inside Job.

Alas, the benevolent dictator still got his way with the rejiggering of Backspacer anyway. No one wins.

Don't we think Ed wrote Cold Confession? And Inside Job was everyone's favor to Mike.

EJ wrote:

stip wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

No doubt some people felt that way all along. But there was a clearly a revival/rehabilitation of Binaural (and Riot Act) that occurred over the years after the initial release--at least in terms of their perceptions on the board. And I think it's fair to say that the existence of the Lost Dogs tracks caused people to come back and look at Binaural in a different way or look closer. An altered context can change the way you hear a song or an album. And the obsession people have with retracking binaural certainly indicates that not everyone is in love with every song on it.

I don't buy that logic at all regarding Binaural.

which part? that perceptions changed (I've been posting here for a long time. Anyone who was active on the board-in pearl jam chat, anyway-in the pre S/T era can attest to the shift) or why they changed?

Or that the surrounding context can subtly change the way you hear music?

Or that people enjoy replacing songs they didn't like as much with songs they liked a lot more?

Mine wrote:

stip wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

No doubt some people felt that way all along. But there was a clearly a revival/rehabilitation of Binaural (and Riot Act) that occurred over the years after the initial release--at least in terms of their perceptions on the board. And I think it's fair to say that the existence of the Lost Dogs tracks caused people to come back and look at Binaural in a different way or look closer. An altered context can change the way you hear a song or an album. And the obsession people have with retracking binaural certainly indicates that not everyone is in love with every song on it.

There's one thing all rationalisation in the world can't change regarding the last 2 records compared to the rest of their catalogue. They never relegated any part of the songwriting/arranging process to any producer before. This alone affects the music in a noticeable way. A good part of Binaural may be "difficult" but they did some amazing job on that record as far as individual songs are concerned. Those songs sound as if, for the most part, they still cared how each individual part sounds in the context of the whole song. Today they sound amateurish in comparison. There's something tacky about their new sound - it's like there's too much of everything.
I wonder if people like the demos so much simply because they aren't as "busy" as what ends on the albums.

I'm not rationalizing anything as much as I'm pointing out that not everyone thinks Binaural is overstuffed with amazing moments and LD just gave us more of them.

Your point about the presumed greater influence of the producer impacting the music is well taken (though we know so little about their general recording process), but I'll continue to take issue with your conviction that somehow the band doesn't give a shit what their music sounds like anymore. It's entirely possible I'll make leaps because I love the new material, but no more than I think you're leaping in the opposite direction.

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

stip wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

No doubt some people felt that way all along. But there was a clearly a revival/rehabilitation of Binaural (and Riot Act) that occurred over the years after the initial release--at least in terms of their perceptions on the board. And I think it's fair to say that the existence of the Lost Dogs tracks caused people to come back and look at Binaural in a different way or look closer. An altered context can change the way you hear a song or an album. And the obsession people have with retracking binaural certainly indicates that not everyone is in love with every song on it.

I don't buy that logic at all regarding Binaural.

which part? that perceptions changed (I've been posting here for a long time. Anyone who was active on the board-in pearl jam chat, anyway-in the pre S/T era can attest to the shift) or why they changed?

Or that the surrounding context can subtly change the way you hear music?

Or that people enjoy replacing songs they didn't like as much with songs they liked a lot more?

For me, Binaural was a very good album from the jump. It was probably the last record of theirs that I was actually really looking forward to hearing the songs live - all of them. That interest dropped with each subsequent release.

The demos/outtakes/etc had no affect on my interest in the album. I still loved what they released. But, it did make me surprised out how incredible those recording sessions were. I couldn't believe that Ed suffered from writer's block. Its still baffling.

EJ wrote:

stip wrote:

EJ wrote:

stip wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:The difference with binaural is that album was already full of good songs. There were just more good songs left off. These leaks don't all of a sudden make life wasted and inside job good.

No doubt some people felt that way all along. But there was a clearly a revival/rehabilitation of Binaural (and Riot Act) that occurred over the years after the initial release--at least in terms of their perceptions on the board. And I think it's fair to say that the existence of the Lost Dogs tracks caused people to come back and look at Binaural in a different way or look closer. An altered context can change the way you hear a song or an album. And the obsession people have with retracking binaural certainly indicates that not everyone is in love with every song on it.

I don't buy that logic at all regarding Binaural.

which part? that perceptions changed (I've been posting here for a long time. Anyone who was active on the board-in pearl jam chat, anyway-in the pre S/T era can attest to the shift) or why they changed?

Or that the surrounding context can subtly change the way you hear music?

Or that people enjoy replacing songs they didn't like as much with songs they liked a lot more?

For me, Binaural was a very good album from the jump. It was probably the last record of theirs that I was actually really looking forward to hearing the songs live - all of them. That interest dropped with each subsequent release.

The demos/outtakes/etc had no affect on my interest in the album. I still loved what they released. But, it did make me surprised out how incredible those recording sessions were. I couldn't believe that Ed suffered from writer's block. Its still baffling.

oh, okay. I'm in no way implying that this is the case for everyone--just that I think it probably played a role in the shift in perceptions. If you were all in from the beginning than nothing changed, and I'm sure some people still dislike it despite LD.