Red Mosquito

Release_Me wrote:

fishbob wrote:The last chorus is good, his voice sounds shit on the "yeaaaaayeaaaaaah"s in the outro. I'll give it a crack tomorrow and let you know how it goes haha

He sounds great. Don't know what you're hearing.

Wasn't the exclusive content with backspacer a boot to a live show that half the people couldn't even access or some equal stupidity? I don't know why people get thier hopes up with this kinda stuff.

And there's good melodies and bad melodies, and the infallible chorus is imo a bad one. Ed could deliver the most technically perfect performance of his career, and I'd still think the melody sucked.

In advance of Backspacer's release, Kelly Curtis did an interview where he said they were aiming to have exclusive live shows spanning the band's whole career available as part of the Backspacer digital content; what was actually delivered were a smattering of already-released live shows from 2005-2006 in 128kbps MP3 with all the cover songs removed.

Of any band's albums that I've bought and received some kind of 'special edition' dvd/cd/tracks/digital d/l, etc. I've never had any replay out of that extra content, only the actual album. Bonus/extra content is always meaningless extra crap that is free for a reason.

Golden Rule: if your album comes with free content never put it on same fucking CD

Release_Me wrote:One thing I never understand is people's hate for Pearl Jam's best choruses. A chorus is the part of the song which is supposed to be most melodic. Something that get's imprinted into the listener's head. You don't cram the most difficult words into a chorus or try to make it musically 'complex'. When you do, you end up with forgettable songs.

I suppose some people hate Pearl Jam's "best choruses" because they don't think they're Pearl Jam's best choruses. I love a good pop chorus, but I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly good pop songwriters. Save for a few notable exceptions ("Betterman" being the first one that comes to mind), I think their most outright pop songs fall flat. "Infallible" is a song with a very ordinary chorus melody. It's not about darkness or complexity. It's just kind of hackneyed.

Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

I don't know Sarge, I've gotten some Special Edition albums in my time that had some pretty awesome bonus material. I wasn't expecting Lightning Bolt to have anything special, but there are definitely some artists out there who deliver.

Actually, there were probably a lot of people out there at the time who would've said the bonus live disc with the 10C edition of S/T was a pretty cool bonus.

theplatypus wrote:Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

You've just summed up perfectly everything I've wanted to say about PJ songs that I don't like

stupidmop wrote:Wasn't the exclusive content with backspacer a boot to a live show that half the people couldn't even access or some equal stupidity? I don't know why people get thier hopes up with this kinda stuff.

And there's good melodies and bad melodies, and the infallible chorus is imo a bad one. Ed could deliver the most technically perfect performance of his career, and I'd still think the melody sucked.

And you'd be wrong like you are here

theplatypus wrote:

Release_Me wrote:One thing I never understand is people's hate for Pearl Jam's best choruses. A chorus is the part of the song which is supposed to be most melodic. Something that get's imprinted into the listener's head. You don't cram the most difficult words into a chorus or try to make it musically 'complex'. When you do, you end up with forgettable songs.

I suppose some people hate Pearl Jam's "best choruses" because they don't think they're Pearl Jam's best choruses. I love a good pop chorus, but I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly good pop songwriters. Save for a few notable exceptions ("Betterman" being the first one that comes to mind), I think their most outright pop songs fall flat. "Infallible" is a song with a very ordinary chorus melody. It's not about darkness or complexity. It's just kind of hackneyed.

Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

I think they are great songwriters and the albums I love all have great pop songwriting. Like this one. I am not a fan of when they stepped away from this and tried to be 'difficult'. I love Infallible. It's in my top ten ever PJ songs so I just disagree with your assessment. A chorus isn't a sales pitch if it's melodic. It's just good. I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act. Good songwriting for me is all about the melodies. PJ's strengths are their marrying of great melodies with non-pop themes and Ed's vocals. LB has this and that's why I feel it's a great PJ album.

Release_Me wrote:I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act.

lol

Release_Me wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

Release_Me wrote:One thing I never understand is people's hate for Pearl Jam's best choruses. A chorus is the part of the song which is supposed to be most melodic. Something that get's imprinted into the listener's head. You don't cram the most difficult words into a chorus or try to make it musically 'complex'. When you do, you end up with forgettable songs.

I suppose some people hate Pearl Jam's "best choruses" because they don't think they're Pearl Jam's best choruses. I love a good pop chorus, but I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly good pop songwriters. Save for a few notable exceptions ("Betterman" being the first one that comes to mind), I think their most outright pop songs fall flat. "Infallible" is a song with a very ordinary chorus melody. It's not about darkness or complexity. It's just kind of hackneyed.

Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

I think they are great songwriters and the albums I love all have great pop songwriting. Like this one. I am not a fan of when they stepped away from this and tried to be 'difficult'. I love Infallible. It's in my top ten ever PJ songs so I just disagree with your assessment. A chorus isn't a sales pitch if it's melodic. It's just good. I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act. Good songwriting for me is all about the melodies. PJ's strengths are their marrying of great melodies with non-pop themes and Ed's vocals. LB has this and that's why I feel it's a great PJ album.

My biggest problem with "Infallible" at this point is not the chorus, but the part where the chorus fizzles out and you just have Ed going yeah yeah yeah over it. The song is two slow, the rhythm too sluggish, to yeah yeah yeah; there's too much space left. I feel as if they need another chorus, almost like the "Ben, the two of us..." refrain of Rats. At this point the song is good, but not great, because that chorus isn't quite getting up there with the rest of the song.

I Am Mine, Light Years, Love Boat Captain, Cropduster, Insignificance, & Grievance all have good to great choruses. Choruses I would take over anything on S/T or Backspacer (and time will tell if Lightning Bolt can be added to that). Choruses that provide emotional climaxes and releases that I look forward to with every listen. Choruses that stick with me without being cloying or overwrought, ones that stay impactful on repeated listens over years & years.

Sonic torture...

Eddie just loves saying yeah way too much

Birds in Hell wrote:

Release_Me wrote:I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act.

lol

I really want to have an intelligent conversation here, but this quote right here..........

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:"By thinking we're infallible, we are tempting fate instead" is kind of shitty lyrically, for an intended anthem. Maybe that's why I like it.

It's the biggest hook in the song. It's actually genius to take the line most representative of the song and make it so melodic. People are singing along to these lyrics in their head. As an artist, no better way to get the message across than to implant it in the heads of your listeners. This isn't a 'wave your lighters' personal song. It's social commentary done in a most effective way. You don't drone on so you put everyone off it. If you want to be heard, this is how you do it.

You can't convince me that "Infallible's" chorus is a better chorus than the choruses you don't like (and I do), just because it's melodic.

Release_Me wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

Release_Me wrote:One thing I never understand is people's hate for Pearl Jam's best choruses. A chorus is the part of the song which is supposed to be most melodic. Something that get's imprinted into the listener's head. You don't cram the most difficult words into a chorus or try to make it musically 'complex'. When you do, you end up with forgettable songs.

I suppose some people hate Pearl Jam's "best choruses" because they don't think they're Pearl Jam's best choruses. I love a good pop chorus, but I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly good pop songwriters. Save for a few notable exceptions ("Betterman" being the first one that comes to mind), I think their most outright pop songs fall flat. "Infallible" is a song with a very ordinary chorus melody. It's not about darkness or complexity. It's just kind of hackneyed.

Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

I think they are great songwriters and the albums I love all have great pop songwriting. Like this one. I am not a fan of when they stepped away from this and tried to be 'difficult'. I love Infallible. It's in my top ten ever PJ songs so I just disagree with your assessment. A chorus isn't a sales pitch if it's melodic. It's just good. I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act. Good songwriting for me is all about the melodies. PJ's strengths are their marrying of great melodies with non-pop themes and Ed's vocals. LB has this and that's why I feel it's a great PJ album.

"Good songwriting is all about the melodies" strikes me as such a weird thing to say. From the start your thing has been "melody melody melody" and I get that, it's what I gravitate towards as well-- I played the cello for eight years and my favorite pieces to play were always things like Shostakovich's sonatas or Bach's suites, pieces where the instrument was allowed to soar with the melodies instead of carrying the burden of the bass line in a quartet. But unlike you, I don't equate "melodic" with "bright and catchy". I enjoy all kinds of melodies- from the obscure and serpentine ones that require some grappling-with to fully make sense of, to the bounciest and catchiest and sugariest hooks of pop songcraft, through the broken and malformed ones that don't really make sense until you've listened to them twelve times. Binaural and Riot Act aren't avant-garde Ornette Coleman noise-jazz freak-outs, they're collections of very melodic rock songs, with many shades to them, that experiment with texture and space in a way PJ have shied away from. It's not about being "difficult", it's about exploring a broader sonic palette for the joy of it. To suggest that you're only interested in bright, catchy melodies (which is what it sounds like you're saying) is, to me, deliberately turning a blind eye (or, uh, a deaf ear) to a lot of beauty, depth and nuance. That sounds awful to me.

theplatypus wrote:It's just kind of hackneyed.

This is a good word to describe why this chorus doesn't do anything for me. I just find it too similar to a lot of pop choruses I can't stand. Having said that I can still appreciate how well Ed sings on this track...

harmless wrote:

Release_Me wrote:

harmless wrote:"By thinking we're infallible, we are tempting fate instead" is kind of shitty lyrically, for an intended anthem. Maybe that's why I like it.

It's the biggest hook in the song. It's actually genius to take the line most representative of the song and make it so melodic. People are singing along to these lyrics in their head. As an artist, no better way to get the message across than to implant it in the heads of your listeners. This isn't a 'wave your lighters' personal song. It's social commentary done in a most effective way. You don't drone on so you put everyone off it. If you want to be heard, this is how you do it.

You can't convince me that "Infallible's" chorus is a better chorus than the choruses you don't like (and I do), just because it's melodic.

Dude, you just don't get it. It's GENIUS to take the line most representative of the song and make it so melodic. That just doesn't happen in songs. Except for Reach Out (I'll Be There). And Live Forever. And Tears of a Clown. And You've Got To Hide Your Love Away. And You Can't Always Get What You Want. And Human Nature. And Controversy. And Better Man. And Miss Jackson. And Nothing Compares 2 U. But definitely no other songs besides those. And Born to Run. And Anarchy in the UK. But that's it.

And Waterloo Sunset.


And Common People.



But nothing else.

Wow, this Flac download is pretty shoddy. Mislabeled "Getwaway" (sic), Lightning Bolt is track nine, and no liner note jpgs or anything.

First time I went digital and I gots burned. Ten Club make-a me sad.