Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread

[McParadigm]

Fun fact: I would rather have all the layered percussion on this album (shakers, tambourines, giant echoey floor toms, bongos and all) than just blandly-played drum kit. I also think that the chorus of Lightning Bolt desperately needs the groove added by that percussion.

SHHFunSHHfact:SHHnoSHHbody'sSHHsayingSHHtheySHHshoulSHHdn'tSHHbeSHHthere

[harmless]

If I had to rely on my memory skills to judge music as a success, the number of songs I've loved would be reduced by at least half.

[stupidmop]

This may have been brought up already, but this is a pic from the uke songs promo. See the name on the paddleboard?

Ugh, you guys probably already pointed it out on page 10 of that speculation thread.

Everything is always surfing.

Why is it called lightning bolt ? Surfing

Why is ltrp on the album? Surfing

Why does bob suck? Surfing

Why can't the band tell bob sucks? Surfing

Why sirens? Surfing

Who-? Surfing

W-? Surfing

can you surf in sweat pants?

You can in eds knee length sweatpants/ boardshorts hybrids. Which I think you'll find i mentioned before.

[harmless]

Fun fact: I would rather have all the layered percussion on this album (shakers, tambourines, giant echoey floor toms, bongos and all) than just blandly-played drum kit. I also think that the chorus of Lightning Bolt desperately needs the groove added by that percussion.

SHHFunSHHfact:SHHnoSHHbody'sSHHsayingSHHtheySHHshoulSHHdn'tSHHbeSHHthere

Are they not? Fair enough. (That post must've taken you a lot of time, ten lightning bolts for effort!)

[Release_Me]

One thing I never understand is people's hate for Pearl Jam's best choruses. A chorus is the part of the song which is supposed to be most melodic. Something that get's imprinted into the listener's head. You don't cram the most difficult words into a chorus or try to make it musically 'complex'. When you do, you end up with forgettable songs.

I suppose some people hate Pearl Jam's "best choruses" because they don't think they're Pearl Jam's best choruses. I love a good pop chorus, but I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly good pop songwriters. Save for a few notable exceptions ("Betterman" being the first one that comes to mind), I think their most outright pop songs fall flat. "Infallible" is a song with a very ordinary chorus melody. It's not about darkness or complexity. It's just kind of hackneyed.

Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

I think they are great songwriters and the albums I love all have great pop songwriting. Like this one. I am not a fan of when they stepped away from this and tried to be 'difficult'. I love Infallible. It's in my top ten ever PJ songs so I just disagree with your assessment. A chorus isn't a sales pitch if it's melodic. It's just good. I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act. Good songwriting for me is all about the melodies. PJ's strengths are their marrying of great melodies with non-pop themes and Ed's vocals. LB has this and that's why I feel it's a great PJ album.

My biggest problem with "Infallible" at this point is not the chorus, but the part where the chorus fizzles out and you just have Ed going yeah yeah yeah over it. The song is two slow, the rhythm too sluggish, to yeah yeah yeah; there's too much space left. I feel as if they need another chorus, almost like the "Ben, the two of us..." refrain of Rats. At this point the song is good, but not great, because that chorus isn't quite getting up there with the rest of the song.

I think the outro is classic PJ/Ed and actually makes the song jump from very good to great. It's like the culmination of everything the song was building up to. Without it, I would have a feeling of being left high and dry. I've always loved Ed's vocalisations and yeah yeahs.

The "Infallible" chorus sounds like a squashed version of Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale". It's a decent enough chorus but it was better when it was called WSOP. That's my main beef with it; good enough, but derivative. I don't think that any reasons you could find to praise this vocal melody would take away from that, nor the fact that the chorus melody and the verses just do not gel well together.

I'm never one to be put off by the term 'derivative', especially when it comes to Pearl Jam. I don't care what it reminds anyone of. It sounds great when Ed is delivering it and the band is playing, that's it. I didn't care that the vocal melody of GTF sounded like Going to California because I never cared much for the original and PJ does it better. Again, and I've stated it a million times, the uplifting chorus where Ed is trying to exhort us to action goes very well with the uneasy sounding verses where he's pointing out the follies of our ways. If the song carried on completely in the direction the verses were taking it, I wouldn't be here talking about it.

[stupidmop]

I dont see how yellow moon is lacking in melody at all.

[stip]

Here's the thing regarding the sweatpants dig. It's a very clever comment, and probably meant in a disparaging way, given the source. It's certainly an excellent phrasing for encapsulating what is a critique many people have.


But honestly, I don't care. I'm not sure the band cares either, provided they are comfortable sweat pants. I've long thought that 'challenging yourself' is overrated--or at the very least is not an end in itself, especially for well established artists. There's something to be said for it, IF THE RESULTS ARE GOOD. If you think the current work is stagnant, then it becomes necessary to get you out of a negative rut.

But if you're happy with the product you currently have sounding familiar is fine, provided you sound good. And I think they sound very good on lightning bolt. And parts are great.

Sweatpants are an important part of a wardrobe. They're comfortable. They're familiar. You feel warm when you put them on. You enjoy lazing around the house in them. You're grateful that, after hundreds or thousands of wears that the stitching holds up and the ass hasn't fallen out. They're your go to clothes when you're at home. You probably wouldn't wear them on a night out, but you have different clothes in your wardrobe for that. There was a period where pearl jam's sweat pants were in style. But that period ended a long time ago. And I'd be thrilled if pearl jam pushed themselves and produced a record full of songs like infallible and pendulum. But I'd be annoyed if they pushed themselves and ended up with a record full of the most ponderous moments on Binaural or the dull 'why even bother putting pants on' low points of riot act. So for me it comes down to the execution, as it always has. If pearl jam surprises me with a new saturday night outfit that's great. But if they can give me comfortable clothes for my day to day life I'm fine with that too. I largely don't care which I get. Stylish or comfortable. As long as they look great or fit well.


And this album fits very very well.

[McParadigm]

You know the answer to this. I bet bob played all the shaker on the album. He played HARD.

Actually, do we know what song he plays guitar on?

My Farting Son.

I don't think I've heard that one yet.

It's for the best, Eds mined his childhood flatulence turmoil too many times for it to be interesting anymore.

You should check it out. It's the piece that ties the whole thing together. From the way it pulls in lines from other tracks ("I've got an unfortunate feeling," "let me catch my breath to breathe," "yeah yeah yeah") to the subtle responses to previous tracks on the record ("Wow that psychopath line earlier was terrible / I hope nobody out there cares about lyrics lol / Oh shit now this line sucks too") to the fact that it was constructed solely on layers of Casio keyboards...it's probably the most memorable track on the record.

[McParadigm]

Fun fact: I would rather have all the layered percussion on this album (shakers, tambourines, giant echoey floor toms, bongos and all) than just blandly-played drum kit. I also think that the chorus of Lightning Bolt desperately needs the groove added by that percussion.

SHHFunSHHfact:SHHnoSHHbody'sSHHsayingSHHtheySHHshoulSHHdn'tSHHbeSHHthere

Are they not? Fair enough. (That post must've taken you a lot of time, ten lightning bolts for effort!)

I don't "do" a whole lot at work, these days.

[Release_Me]

It's not, it's just a bit subdued. Takes time to pull you in but it does, eventually. It's not immediately grabbing you by the balls like Getaway for example. I mean you in a very general sense here.

[Release_Me]

Here's the thing regarding the sweatpants dig. It's a very clever comment, and probably meant in a disparaging way, given the source. It's certainly an excellent phrasing for encapsulating what is a critique many people have.


But honestly, I don't care. I'm not sure the band cares either, provided they are comfortable sweat pants. I've long thought that 'challenging yourself' is overrated--or at the very least is not an end in itself, especially for well established artists. There's something to be said for it, IF THE RESULTS ARE GOOD. If you think the current work is stagnant, then it becomes necessary to get you out of a negative rut.

But if you're happy with the product you currently have sounding familiar is fine, provided you sound good. And I think they sound very good on lightning bolt. And parts are great.

Sweatpants are an important part of a wardrobe. They're comfortable. They're familiar. You feel warm when you put them on. You enjoy lazing around the house in them. You're grateful that, after hundreds or thousands of wears that the stitching holds up and the ass hasn't fallen out. They're your go to clothes when you're at home. You probably wouldn't wear them on a night out, but you have different clothes in your wardrobe for that. There was a period where pearl jam's sweat pants were in style. But that period ended a long time ago. And I'd be thrilled if pearl jam pushed themselves and produced a record full of songs like infallible and pendulum. But I'd be annoyed if they pushed themselves and ended up with a record full of the most ponderous moments on Binaural or the dull 'why even bother putting pants on' low points of riot act. So for me it comes down to the execution, as it always has. If pearl jam surprises me with a new saturday night outfit that's great. But if they can give me comfortable clothes for my day to day life I'm fine with that too. I largely don't care which I get. Stylish or comfortable. As long as they look great or fit well.


And this album fits very very well.

You and I should sit down for coffee sometime.

[Mike]

Of course, you'll find examples of songs which do have good melodies in the middle period albums. It's not the rule though, rather the exception. On LB, I think FD is the one which really fails to latch onto a memorable melody. But it's the exception on this album. Those songs listed are not all melodies I'd consider memorable. I am Mine, LBC and Grievance are the ones I'd really get behind. The other three are ok but I find LB to be much more engaging for me as a listener. Ed's vocals and delivery have a lot to do with it. His vocals/the way they are recorded on most of Binaural and Riot Act suck the life out of the songs. On Binaural, it's the production too. On Riot Act, it's mostly just Ed.

Just out of interest, what is a memorable melody for you? Is it a melody thats so good that it's worth remembering or a memory that just stays in your head because it's so easy to remember? Or a little bit of both? For me, Cropduster for example has a memorable memory in the sense that I think it's great and worth remembering but it doesn't stick in my head at all after hearing it.

A bit of both. Using this album as an example, Getaway is the one which immediately caught me as memorable. It doesn't get old with repeated listens either. On the other end of the spectrum is probably Yellow Moon and Sirens which took time but eventually ended up getting imprinted in my memory. When I forget how a song sounds like after not listening to it for a while, I'd say it's less than memorable. No matter how long I go without listening to the Ten songs for example, I never forget them. Cropduster isn't a bad one at all, but Ed's almost disinterested vocal take puts me off it.

Ah okay, I get that. That's a quality I appreciate as well (as most of us do I guess), melodies that are remarkable and special enough to be remembered among the thousands of songs we listened to in our lives.

[McParadigm]

But honestly, I don't care. I'm not sure the band cares either, provided they are comfortable sweat pants.

Wasn't that, like literally, the whole point of the reference?

I've long thought that 'challenging yourself' is overrated

Your kids are going to get just the most amazing parental advice ever, when they're older.

[stip]

But honestly, I don't care. I'm not sure the band cares either, provided they are comfortable sweat pants.

Wasn't that, like literally, the whole point of the reference?

It was. But I think pitchfork is downgrading the importance of a comfortable pair of sweatpants in your wardrobe.

I've long thought that 'challenging yourself' is overrated

Your kids are going to get just the most amazing parental advice ever, when they're older.

son you tried and you failed. The lesson here is never try

[harmless]

One thing I never understand is people's hate for Pearl Jam's best choruses. A chorus is the part of the song which is supposed to be most melodic. Something that get's imprinted into the listener's head. You don't cram the most difficult words into a chorus or try to make it musically 'complex'. When you do, you end up with forgettable songs.

I suppose some people hate Pearl Jam's "best choruses" because they don't think they're Pearl Jam's best choruses. I love a good pop chorus, but I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly good pop songwriters. Save for a few notable exceptions ("Betterman" being the first one that comes to mind), I think their most outright pop songs fall flat. "Infallible" is a song with a very ordinary chorus melody. It's not about darkness or complexity. It's just kind of hackneyed.

Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

I think they are great songwriters and the albums I love all have great pop songwriting. Like this one. I am not a fan of when they stepped away from this and tried to be 'difficult'. I love Infallible. It's in my top ten ever PJ songs so I just disagree with your assessment. A chorus isn't a sales pitch if it's melodic. It's just good. I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act. Good songwriting for me is all about the melodies. PJ's strengths are their marrying of great melodies with non-pop themes and Ed's vocals. LB has this and that's why I feel it's a great PJ album.

My biggest problem with "Infallible" at this point is not the chorus, but the part where the chorus fizzles out and you just have Ed going yeah yeah yeah over it. The song is two slow, the rhythm too sluggish, to yeah yeah yeah; there's too much space left. I feel as if they need another chorus, almost like the "Ben, the two of us..." refrain of Rats. At this point the song is good, but not great, because that chorus isn't quite getting up there with the rest of the song.

I think the outro is classic PJ/Ed and actually makes the song jump from very good to great. It's like the culmination of everything the song was building up to. Without it, I would have a feeling of being left high and dry. I've always loved Ed's vocalisations and yeah yeahs.

The "Infallible" chorus sounds like a squashed version of Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale". It's a decent enough chorus but it was better when it was called WSOP. That's my main beef with it; good enough, but derivative. I don't think that any reasons you could find to praise this vocal melody would take away from that, nor the fact that the chorus melody and the verses just do not gel well together.

I'm never one to be put off by the term 'derivative', especially when it comes to Pearl Jam. I don't care what it reminds anyone of. It sounds great when Ed is delivering it and the band is playing, that's it. I didn't care that the vocal melody of GTF sounded like Going to California because I never cared much for the original and PJ does it better. Again, and I've stated it a million times, the uplifting chorus where Ed is trying to exhort us to action goes very well with the uneasy sounding verses where he's pointing out the follies of our ways. If the song carried on completely in the direction the verses were taking it, I wouldn't be here talking about it.

Pearl Jam has always been derivative of their favourite bands, sure. I realise that. The general difference now, more often than not, is that they're no longer taking the ingredients they derive from those bands and traditions and making something at least three times as interesting to my ears. Apparently they always derived from The Who, for example. But I've never liked The Who; I've always liked Pearl Jam. So, whether derivative is acceptable or not will entirely depend on whether you think that what was made with the ingredients is worth the derivation. And I (personally) don't think that stealing melodies from great songs in order to write merely good songs is... as great listening as it could be.

But "Infallible" isn't even the best example of this. LTRP is by far the most derivative song on the album, along with FD. And I think that a few pages ago, I clicked on a link to an interview in which Stone said that LTRP is alright, it's not bad, but it's really not his favourite on the record. And I'm just not sure how a comment like that, on this album's release date, from the guy who wrote the songs, is going to inspire anyone's confidence if they're trying to decide whether or not they like it. In fact, Stone has decided it for me. I feel that I now have his full permission to think it's average for all the same reasons he himself thinks it's average.

[stip]

In all seriousness though, the assumption in everything I said there is that you're still GOOD at what you're doing. if you're not, then it is important to try new things. If you feel restless then you should try new things. If mixing things up is necessary to remain good then you should try new things.

I have a number of lectures that I'm pretty proud of. But I keep refining them every time I give them if I have new insights I think are worth sharing, or I need to update examples, or accommodate new information, etc. I'd be a really shitty teacher if I didn't.

But if I've been teaching American politics for 20 years I don't think I need to start teaching about international relations just because i've been doing American Politics for 20 years, provided I'm still doing it well.

[stupidmop]

You know the answer to this. I bet bob played all the shaker on the album. He played HARD.

Actually, do we know what song he plays guitar on?

My Farting Son.

I don't think I've heard that one yet.

It's for the best, Eds mined his childhood flatulence turmoil too many times for it to be interesting anymore.

You should check it out. It's the piece that ties the whole thing together. From the way it pulls in lines from other tracks ("I've got an unfortunate feeling," "let me catch my breath to breathe," "yeah yeah yeah") to the subtle responses to previous tracks on the record ("Wow that psychopath line earlier was terrible / I hope nobody out there cares about lyrics lol / Oh shit now this line sucks too") to the fact that it was constructed solely on layers of Casio keyboards...it's probably the most memorable track on the record.

I just don't know if I can listen to that story about eds dad looking at him funny when he sharted at the dinner table that one time. We get it ed, it was rough, you gotta surf away the shame, yeah yeah yeah. No version will ever top 'farting down' from that show in 95, that had real emotion, now its just ed going through the motions.

[stip]

One thing I never understand is people's hate for Pearl Jam's best choruses. A chorus is the part of the song which is supposed to be most melodic. Something that get's imprinted into the listener's head. You don't cram the most difficult words into a chorus or try to make it musically 'complex'. When you do, you end up with forgettable songs.

I suppose some people hate Pearl Jam's "best choruses" because they don't think they're Pearl Jam's best choruses. I love a good pop chorus, but I don't think Pearl Jam are particularly good pop songwriters. Save for a few notable exceptions ("Betterman" being the first one that comes to mind), I think their most outright pop songs fall flat. "Infallible" is a song with a very ordinary chorus melody. It's not about darkness or complexity. It's just kind of hackneyed.

Furthermore, why do you approach songs like TV adverts? A chorus isn't a sales pitch. It doesn't have to be the most melodic part of a song, it just often is. Shooting for earworm usually results in lightweight dreck, and that's not what interests me about Pearl Jam. Their strengths are elsewhere.

I think they are great songwriters and the albums I love all have great pop songwriting. Like this one. I am not a fan of when they stepped away from this and tried to be 'difficult'. I love Infallible. It's in my top ten ever PJ songs so I just disagree with your assessment. A chorus isn't a sales pitch if it's melodic. It's just good. I don't like sonic torture ala Binaural and Riot Act. Good songwriting for me is all about the melodies. PJ's strengths are their marrying of great melodies with non-pop themes and Ed's vocals. LB has this and that's why I feel it's a great PJ album.

My biggest problem with "Infallible" at this point is not the chorus, but the part where the chorus fizzles out and you just have Ed going yeah yeah yeah over it. The song is two slow, the rhythm too sluggish, to yeah yeah yeah; there's too much space left. I feel as if they need another chorus, almost like the "Ben, the two of us..." refrain of Rats. At this point the song is good, but not great, because that chorus isn't quite getting up there with the rest of the song.

I think the outro is classic PJ/Ed and actually makes the song jump from very good to great. It's like the culmination of everything the song was building up to. Without it, I would have a feeling of being left high and dry. I've always loved Ed's vocalisations and yeah yeahs.

The "Infallible" chorus sounds like a squashed version of Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale". It's a decent enough chorus but it was better when it was called WSOP. That's my main beef with it; good enough, but derivative. I don't think that any reasons you could find to praise this vocal melody would take away from that, nor the fact that the chorus melody and the verses just do not gel well together.

I'm never one to be put off by the term 'derivative', especially when it comes to Pearl Jam. I don't care what it reminds anyone of. It sounds great when Ed is delivering it and the band is playing, that's it. I didn't care that the vocal melody of GTF sounded like Going to California because I never cared much for the original and PJ does it better. Again, and I've stated it a million times, the uplifting chorus where Ed is trying to exhort us to action goes very well with the uneasy sounding verses where he's pointing out the follies of our ways. If the song carried on completely in the direction the verses were taking it, I wouldn't be here talking about it.

Pearl Jam has always been derivative of their favourite bands, sure. I realise that. The general difference now, more often than not, is that they're no longer taking the ingredients they derive from those bands and traditions and making something at least three times as interesting to my ears. Apparently they always derived from The Who, for example. But I've never liked The Who; I've always liked Pearl Jam. So, whether derivative is acceptable or not will entirely depend on whether you think that what was made with the ingredients is worth the derivation. And I (personally) don't think that stealing melodies from great songs in order to write merely good songs is... as great listening as it could be.

But "Infallible" isn't even the best example of this. LTRP is by far the most derivative song on the album, along with FD. And I think that a few pages ago, I clicked on a link to an interview in which Stone said that LTRP is alright, it's not bad, but it's really not his favourite on the record. And I'm just not sure how a comment like that, on this album's release date, from the guy who wrote the songs, is going to inspire anyone's confidence if they're trying to decide whether or not they like it. In fact, Stone has decided it for me. I feel that I now have his full permission to think it's average for all the same reasons he himself thinks it's average.

I have no idea what Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale" is. I wonder if people on that board are arguing it's derivative of something else. there's a lot of music out there. I suspect most everything can reference something already out there if you look hard enough.

[Heathen]

I have no idea what Procol Harum's "Whiter Shade of Pale" is.

I bet you've heard it but have no idea what it's called/who made it, seems to be quite common

[NothingBetterMan]

Just saw this on Grantland. Haven't read through it yet... http://www.grantland.com/story/_/id/982 ... erly-rated