Red Mosquito

dimejinky99 wrote:They're all in, the Muslims. No picking n choosing. Gotta admire that.

I don't think there's anything particularly admirable about it.

Birds in Hell wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:They're all in, the Muslims. No picking n choosing. Gotta admire that.

I don't think there's anything particularly admirable about it.

I believe he was being sarcastic.

Birds in Hell wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:They're all in, the Muslims. No picking n choosing. Gotta admire that.

I don't think there's anything particularly admirable about it.

Well, I was being facetious but when I think of hard right christians blabbing on about homosexuality and leviticus, but ignoring the parts where its ok to sell your daughter to slavery and all those other crazy parts in that same book, it boils my piss.

All of the Muslims i know are horrified and embarrassed today as well as getting ready for on the street backlash and abuse.

Heh I was gonna say "at least Christianity ignores much of the worst stuff".

What gets me is that much of the worst stuff in the Quran is also in the bible, but Christians are usually oblivious. I always thought there would be far fewer Christians if more people actually read the Bible, rather than have someone read completely unrelated and carefully selected passages out of it. But at least Christianity ignores much of it when it suits us. I mean, not working on Sunday is one of the Big Ten, but most ignore that one. Usury? Thats cool now since our whole society is built on it. and so on.

Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

Given where the discussion has now headed, there is a user I see browsing this forum that I think would give a lot of insight. I won't name that user out of respect, but it would be nice to hear that perspective again.

EDIT: well, I guess you did decide to post right before me. Welcome back.

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

It wears you out.

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

Islamic and Islamist..Apparently there's a difference.

(never heard islamist used before)

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

Just for the sake of argument, how is this a different line of argument than, say, "homosexuality is poison, not homosexuals"?

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

sorry, i dont see the difference. as far as im concerned , Im a Muslim and by definition Islam is my religion.

fakeplasticdreams wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

sorry, i dont see the difference. as far as im concerned , Im a Muslim and by definition Islam is my religion.

Yeah, and I'm criticizing your religion, not you. People not being able to see that difference is exactly why there's such a problem these days with religion, especially Islam, being considered immune to criticism.

Green Habit wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

Just for the sake of argument, how is this a different line of argument than, say, "homosexuality is poison, not homosexuals"?

Sexuality and religious beliefs are not interchangeable in this scenario.

Sexuality is part of the identity a person is born with. You can't change it.

Religion is an idea, a set of chosen beliefs. A person chooses what they believe.

Concepts and ideas should ALWAYS be free to be criticized and questioned.

Speaking of immune to criticism, Irelands leading Muslim academic has instead of distancing himself and those he speaks for, refused to condemn those who did this today and instead vaguely threatened and said he'll legally pursue any paper here that publishes any of the cartoons. We have fucked up blasphemy laws, which really only apply to 'our' God/religion but seriously..he aint doing himself or Muslims here any favours at all.
http://www.thejournal.ie/dr-ali-selim-c ... itter_self

It seems crazy to me that any country could have blasphemy laws.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Green Habit wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

Just for the sake of argument, how is this a different line of argument than, say, "homosexuality is poison, not homosexuals"?

Sexuality and religious beliefs are not interchangeable in this scenario.

Sexuality is part of the identity a person is born with. You can't change it.

Religion is an idea, a set of chosen beliefs. A person chooses what they believe.

Concepts and ideas should ALWAYS be free to be criticized and questioned.

Hm, I'm not sure if it's that clear cut. When someone is told their entire childhood that this is how a certain supernatural phenomenon operates, it's not a belief that's easily shaken. It's not impossible, of course, but I don't think it's as easy as flipping a switch. After all, it's quite common for people born of parents of a certain religion to carry that same religion onward in their own lives.

Then, there's also the issue that Islam is a very broad religion. I'll save that for fakeplasticdreams to elaborate upon if so desired, though.

Yeah I consider myself not religious, but grew up in a strong Christian family. I'm 40 and i still feel myself feeling guilty sometimes for having "anti Christian" thoughts. Can't imagine if my folks would have been extreme religious nuts.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:It seems crazy to me that any country could have blasphemy laws.

Only introduced a few years ago..you'd think they were some old laws that hadnt been repealed but no, 2006 or 7 i think. Serving what purpose i dont know.

Green Habit wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

Green Habit wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

Just for the sake of argument, how is this a different line of argument than, say, "homosexuality is poison, not homosexuals"?

Sexuality and religious beliefs are not interchangeable in this scenario.

Sexuality is part of the identity a person is born with. You can't change it.

Religion is an idea, a set of chosen beliefs. A person chooses what they believe.

Concepts and ideas should ALWAYS be free to be criticized and questioned.

Hm, I'm not sure if it's that clear cut. When someone is told their entire childhood that this is how a certain supernatural phenomenon operates, it's not a belief that's easily shaken. It's not impossible, of course, but I don't think it's as easy as flipping a switch. After all, it's quite common for people born of parents of a certain religion to carry that same religion onward in their own lives.

Then, there's also the issue that Islam is a very broad religion. I'll save that for fakeplasticdreams to elaborate upon if so desired, though.

So? When did I say anything about it being easy to shake? My point was that religion is a concept, and concepts should be free to be discussed, debated, criticized, and, yes, mocked.

For the record, I was born in a Christian hegemony, to devoutly Christian parents (in fact, I would even describe my mom as borderline-fanatically Christian), went to a Christian elementary school, was raised in an all-Christian family, was not exposed to non-Christian ideas...and here I am, an atheist.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

fakeplasticdreams wrote:Nice to know some of you think we're poisonous

I said Islam is poison, not Muslims. That's an important distinction.

sorry, i dont see the difference. as far as im concerned , Im a Muslim and by definition Islam is my religion.

Yeah, and I'm criticizing your religion, not you. People not being able to see that difference is exactly why there's such a problem these days with religion, especially Islam, being considered immune to criticism.

On the contrary I do see it.

In simple terms, ill give you this insight;

To a person professed to subscribe to Islam, Islam , for us, is the perfect religion. The key word; to Muslims.

The Quran is not a How To Live Your Life According to Islam For Dummies; it's not. Its not the only source. Like many similar Abrahamic religions there are many school of thoughts, many interpretations. Criticisms ARE allowed in Islam (more so now in the age of the social media, though ill admit it wasnt like this in the past). Like for example A lot of us have been very vocal in criticizing on how Saudi Arabia have been ruling their kingdom with ridiculous laws.

In the case of Charlie Hebdo, or the Danish cartoon before it; what i see is the dearth of people actually trying to engage in a manner to actually understand what (insert any religion or faiths, atheist included) is about. The 12 people didnt have to die for this. at the same time, theres a fine line between criticism and just plain mocking. and this goes for both sides (the "Western" countries and the Islamic communities that reside in these countries). Theres also cultural differences to take into account into.