McParadigm wrote:I think there's also a substantial difference between "investigating slightly different and subtle textural shifts within your established sound, every four years or so," and "investigating slightly different and subtle textural shifts within your sound every 12-18 months." Minutia requires company in a way big statements do not.
that's a very fair critique. Pearl Jam should be releasing albums far more frequently given how comfortable the songs feel.
Although I suppose if you factor in the solo projects they're doing just that. Band dynamics, and all that.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:22 pm
by Release_Me
Lament wrote:
stip wrote:
Lament wrote:The best part is his handle is from a song whose strengths are derived less from the chorus than possibly any other song in the entire Pearl Jam catalog.
The chorus in release is probably the best part of that song, but all the parts are great so why argue?
I don't think I've ever heard someone say the chorus is the best part of that song. It's always been all about the verses for me and everyone I know. I think the song would be every bit as strong if there weren't a chorus (as in it were just instrumental, since we're talking about melodies). It's one of my favorite Pearl Jam songs, but it's always been about the atmosphere, the gentle guitar lines, the way the vocals in the verses build to a crescendo. I don't know that the added "release me!"s over the chord changes in the chorus add anything to the song that the music shifting off of the one chord it's been sitting on for the entire verse doesn't more than take of on its own. And I say this from a point of loving this song as well (this is one of two songs from Ten I regularly revisit).
As the guy with the Release_Me handle, I'd like to say the chorus is the best part of the song. Everything else from the atmosphere to the verses is building up for the cathartic release of the chorus. This is probably the most Ed-centric song on the most Ed-centric album of their career. As an Ed fan in particular, I really like it but I don't think it's anywhere near the best song on that fantastic album. Ed could have recorded this with any bunch of musicians. For all the criticisms that present day Ed songs get for being on PJ albums instead of Ed solo records, this is the earliest example of such a song.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:23 pm
by stip
McParadigm wrote:
pnjguy wrote:Ed is definitely more Bono than he is Neil. Who would have thunk that 20 years ago?
The more we heard him name drop Bruce, the less we heard him name drop Neil.
It was a real harbinger of things to come (now harmless now run with it ruunnnnnnnnnnnn)
Yeah, Ed isn't very Bono at all. Springsteen is, at this point, the clear artistic north star
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:23 pm
by McParadigm
stip wrote:true believers usually don't see their mythology as mythology. I was wondering if this was the case. I have only heard scattered songs here and there, but for someone credited for always following his muse no matter where it leads, they all sounded of a piece to me. But maybe I just get fed the introductory material.
Nobody is going to argue that Neil doesn't have an inherent style, when it comes to construction or melody. Which is why I felt the need to add this post:
I think there's also a substantial difference between "investigating slightly different and subtle textural shifts within your established sound, every four years or so," and "investigating slightly different and subtle textural shifts within your sound every 12-18 months." Minutia requires company in a way big statements do not.
Edit: oh, you already responded to that. I should read before I write. Shameful, really.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:24 pm
by southp
stip wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
pnjguy wrote:Ed is definitely more Bono than he is Neil. Who would have thunk that 20 years ago?
The more we heard him name drop Bruce, the less we heard him name drop Neil.
It was a real harbinger of things to come (now harmless now run with it ruunnnnnnnnnnnn)
Yeah, Ed isn't very Bono at all. Springsteen is, at this point, the clear artistic north star
If you've heard Wrecking Ball then you'll know there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:24 pm
by Okonkwo
The Pitchfork review is about what you'd expect. There are some fair criticisms about the straightforwardness of the last few records (and the similarities in tracklists), but few specifics, and overall you get the sense the judgement is arrived at through deductive reasoning, and that it's hard for reviewers, especially at Pitchfork, to get past their existing prejudices and actually listen to the songs for what they are.
Also given their Backspacer review, I'm surprised they didn't comment on what I think are big improvements in the efforts at poppier songs, especially the more-natural sounding melodies and lyrics ('gonna put a little fixin' on it) from Eddie Sweatpants.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:24 pm
by McParadigm
southp wrote:
stip wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
pnjguy wrote:Ed is definitely more Bono than he is Neil. Who would have thunk that 20 years ago?
The more we heard him name drop Bruce, the less we heard him name drop Neil.
It was a real harbinger of things to come (now harmless now run with it ruunnnnnnnnnnnn)
Yeah, Ed isn't very Bono at all. Springsteen is, at this point, the clear artistic north star
If you've heard Wrecking Ball then you'll know there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:25 pm
by harmless
southp wrote:
stip wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
pnjguy wrote:Ed is definitely more Bono than he is Neil. Who would have thunk that 20 years ago?
The more we heard him name drop Bruce, the less we heard him name drop Neil.
It was a real harbinger of things to come (now harmless now run with it ruunnnnnnnnnnnn)
Yeah, Ed isn't very Bono at all. Springsteen is, at this point, the clear artistic north star
If you've heard Wrecking Ball then you'll know there's absolutely nothing wrong with that!
Apparently there might be if all you're listening to is 'Magic', though.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:26 pm
by stip
I haven't. But I generally like Springsteen. I don't love him, but I love some of the songs. He's usually not someone who can hold my attention for a whole record.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:26 pm
by pnjguy
stip wrote: This seems like a really weird thing to speculate about an artist you admit to not knowing.
true believers usually don't see their mythology as mythology. I was wondering if this was the case. I have only heard scattered songs here and there, but for someone credited for always following his muse no matter where it leads, they all sounded of a piece to me. But maybe I just get fed the introductory material.
We also tend to be far more respectful of our musical heroes in the other bands threads than we do pearl jam. I know I could subject REM or Tom Waits or Mark Lanegan or another one of my sacred cows to the kind of nitpicky micro criticisms (and the macro ones) that we do here (myself included), but we don't. We tend to focus on what we love and ignore what we don't. And so the way someone like Neil Young gets used here could reflect an idealized Neil Young more than the reality.
But maybe not. that's why I asked.
The main and larger point is that Neil doesn't really give a shit about anything or anybody regardless of the music he makes. It's just the way he rolls. That mentality gives you a lot of freedom. Ed seems locked by many different things.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:27 pm
by McParadigm
stip wrote:I know I could subject REM or Tom Waits or Mark Lanegan or another one of my sacred cows to the kind of nitpicky micro criticisms (and the macro ones) that we do here (myself included)
For some reason this made me think of this:
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:27 pm
by Lament
stip wrote:We also tend to be far more respectful of our musical heroes in the other bands threads than we do pearl jam.
If it makes you feel any better I got chased out of the Pearl Jam thread in the Other Bands section of the Manics site for being too negative/critical of them.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:28 pm
by southp
stip wrote:I haven't. But I generally like Springsteen. I don't love him, but I love some of the songs. He's usually not someone who can hold my attention for a whole record.
Wrecking Ball was easily my favourite album of 2012, and is still in heavy rotation.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:28 pm
by Release_Me
BurtReynolds wrote:Most of these reviews insist on summarizing PJ's entire career and then fitting LB into that, not just Pitchfork. I don't get it either, but few music critics are very good at their jobs, IMO.
Though in their defense, saying an album as a whole is "more of the same" while ignoring the few outliers isn't that bad (that's why they are outliers). The majority of the album is more of the same. You wouldn't claim My Father's Son is representative of the album.
The problem is, no one song on LB is representative of the album.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:28 pm
by stip
pearl jam can't really operate that way because it's 5 guys, and 5 songwriters to boot. If nothing else they need to figure out a way to navigate each other
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:29 pm
by McParadigm
southp wrote:
stip wrote:I haven't. But I generally like Springsteen. I don't love him, but I love some of the songs. He's usually not someone who can hold my attention for a whole record.
Wrecking Ball was easily my favourite album of 2012, and is still in heavy rotation.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:30 pm
by stip
McParadigm wrote:
stip wrote:I know I could subject REM or Tom Waits or Mark Lanegan or another one of my sacred cows to the kind of nitpicky micro criticisms (and the macro ones) that we do here (myself included)
For some reason this made me think of this:
i saw that once before. It's pretty great
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:30 pm
by stip
southp wrote:
stip wrote:I haven't. But I generally like Springsteen. I don't love him, but I love some of the songs. He's usually not someone who can hold my attention for a whole record.
Wrecking Ball was easily my favourite album of 2012, and is still in heavy rotation.
can you compare it to another record in his catalog. I haven't heard anything since magic.
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:30 pm
by Dr. Van Nostrand
LostDog1079 wrote:
Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:
LostDog1079 wrote:
Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:its no secret that i am a big fan of this album, but i will say that i dont know what they were going for with the way they tracked it. im sure it was talked about while i was still waiting to hear the album, but im not sure if they were trying to say somehting with the order of the tracks or if they just threw them on there randomly
I personally don't have a problem with the order of songs, Doc. But to each his/her own.
its nothing terrible, but mainly sirens and LB seem out of place kinda, im not sure where i would put them, but id do somehting different.
I like having LB be after Sirens. You need to lighten the mood after an emotional track like Sirens.
i would probably just move both sirens and lightning bolt to after pendulum, in my head it seems like you would have a better flow with
getaway
MYM
MFS
infallible
Pendulum
sirens
lightning bolt
swallowed whole
LTRP
SBM
yellow moon
future days
it might be terrible that way but i havent acturally tried it to see how it works
Re: Lightning Bolt: The Official Album Thread
Posted: Tue October 15, 2013 7:30 pm
by stip
Lament wrote:
stip wrote:We also tend to be far more respectful of our musical heroes in the other bands threads than we do pearl jam.
If it makes you feel any better I got chased out of the Pearl Jam thread in the Other Bands section of the Manics site for being too negative/critical of them.
