Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:Also, I just spotted this in the BO'B interview that I didn't notice before.

I think we mixed everything in Seattle. They wanted to mix up there because they all wanted to be around. It takes a little longer when everybody is around. I say a "little longer," but It probably took 10 days. That's not a long time for some people, but that seems like a long time to me.

Where they not around for all the mixing last time? That's what this seems to imply (and also that it took longer than BO'B might've hoped...). If they weren't present during the mixing of Backspacer, and they insisted that they should be present this time, maybe it's because they were relatively unhappy with the pop sound. It's only mindless speculation but it's possible, no?

If this is proven wrong in the end, I still like your thinking

Maybe Backspacer sounded like it did because BO'B got to mix it on his own, with no one around. I'm not sure the actual recording influences the pop sheen / gloss all over the album too much; it will establish stuff like guitar and drum tone, but it's in the mixing where the textures of everything are decided, and I guess they can add more or less of the harmonies, background sounds etc.

harmless wrote:Maybe Backspacer sounded like it did because BO'B got to mix it on his own, with no one around. I'm not sure the actual recording influences the pop sheen / gloss all over the album too much; it will establish stuff like guitar and drum tone, but it's in the mixing where the textures of everything are decided, and I guess they can add more or less of the harmonies, background sounds etc.

Even the essentially poppy song Unemployed sounds less poppy than the hardest stuff on Backspacer. I like Backspacer in general but I have to agree its production is terribly poppy.

Is poppy even a word?

Two things -

BO'B did five albums with the band, right? Of those five, the consensus is that only one (BS) wasn't well-received. Why the hate? Are people under the impression that if someone like Tchad Blake had produced it, it would have made some major difference? Not being a smart ass, just curious.

Also, I suddenly have this fear that the Ontario soundcheck tune won't even be on the new album! I mighta missed it, but has there been confirmation that song is indeed Sirens or will be on the album?

Lounge Lizard wrote:

harmless wrote:Maybe Backspacer sounded like it did because BO'B got to mix it on his own, with no one around. I'm not sure the actual recording influences the pop sheen / gloss all over the album too much; it will establish stuff like guitar and drum tone, but it's in the mixing where the textures of everything are decided, and I guess they can add more or less of the harmonies, background sounds etc.

Even the essentially poppy song Unemployed sounds less poppy than the hardest stuff on Backspacer. I like Backspacer in general but I have to agree its production is terribly poppy.

Is poppy even a word?

Well, traditionally it's this:



But in the sense of 'sounds like pop' it's used in conversation a lot, so yes.

Cleverman wrote:Two things -

BO'B did five albums with the band, right? Of those five, the consensus is that only one (BS) wasn't well-received. Why the hate? Are people under the impression that if someone like Tchad Blake had produced it, it would have made some major difference? Not being a smart ass, just curious.

Yes, there would've been a major difference. I mean, a few of the songs are really lacking lyrically but the overall pop production made it sound even worse imo. Sure, it could've been fucked up if it had been produced by someone else (I'm not a fan of S/T's production for other reasons). But for more reasons to dislike BO'B, including his production values, go to the BO'B scapegoat thread.

Cleverman wrote:Also, I suddenly have this fear that the Ontario soundcheck tune won't even be on the new album! I mighta missed it, but has there been confirmation that song is indeed Sirens or will be on the album?

It's just a guess that the soundcheck song is 'Sirens', but BO'B has said that a song called 'Sirens' will be on there. Was it a soundchecked live song, or a studio version played on loud speakers, we don't know, but no one recognises it so there's reason to believe it's a song by Pearl Jam. Why the 'sudden fear' it won't be on there?

Lounge Lizard wrote:

harmless wrote:positive speculation

If this is proven wrong in the end, I still like your thinking

I like that thought as well

harmless wrote:Is it just me or has Rolling Stone changed the intro about BO'B being the 6th member of the band? Maybe they had a slew of complaints.

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/ ... t-20130731

That's hilarious, they totally did.

harmless wrote:

Cleverman wrote:Two things -

BO'B did five albums with the band, right? Of those five, the consensus is that only one (BS) wasn't well-received. Why the hate? Are people under the impression that if someone like Tchad Blake had produced it, it would have made some major difference? Not being a smart ass, just curious.

Yes, there would've been a major difference. I mean, a few of the songs are really lacking lyrically but the overall pop production made it sound even worse imo. Sure, it could've been fucked up if it had been produced by someone else (I'm not a fan of S/T's production for other reasons). But for more reasons to dislike BO'B, including his production values, go to the BO'B scapegoat thread.

Cleverman wrote:Also, I suddenly have this fear that the Ontario soundcheck tune won't even be on the new album! I mighta missed it, but has there been confirmation that song is indeed Sirens or will be on the album?

It's just a guess that the soundcheck song is 'Sirens', but BO'B has said that a song called 'Sirens' will be on there. Was it a soundchecked live song, or a studio version played on loud speakers, we don't know, but no one recognises it so there's reason to believe it's a song by Pearl Jam. Why the 'sudden fear' it won't be on there?

Okay, fair enough. I'll have to look through that thread because I always look at a rock producer like how people have the old saying about an NFL quarterback (paraphrasing): Too much credit when the team wins, too much blame when the team loses. Now a hip hop or boy band producer, they're way more involved in the sound of a record, and anyway i quite like the sound of BO'B's other PJ records (No Code and Yield specifically).

As for the sudden fear, I don't know, but of the three new songs we know (or are at least pretty sure) will be on the new album, I really like one (MYM), think one is pretty good (LB) and am really ugh, meh on the other (FD), but the soundcheck song seemed to be more in line (granted, it's not a good recording) with my selfish needs as a fan (big fan of NAIS, Sleight of Hand, PT, etc) and I guess it would figure that it wouldn't be on Lightning Bolt.

RE: BO'B, the shiny production of Backspacer seems in-keeping with the feel of those tunes. Tchad Blake is a great producer, but do you really think he would've saved something like Supersonic or Amongst The Waves? The problems with Backspacer aren't first and foremost production issues.

Cleverman wrote:

harmless wrote:

Cleverman wrote:Two things -

BO'B did five albums with the band, right? Of those five, the consensus is that only one (BS) wasn't well-received. Why the hate? Are people under the impression that if someone like Tchad Blake had produced it, it would have made some major difference? Not being a smart ass, just curious.

Yes, there would've been a major difference. I mean, a few of the songs are really lacking lyrically but the overall pop production made it sound even worse imo. Sure, it could've been fucked up if it had been produced by someone else (I'm not a fan of S/T's production for other reasons). But for more reasons to dislike BO'B, including his production values, go to the BO'B scapegoat thread.

Cleverman wrote:Also, I suddenly have this fear that the Ontario soundcheck tune won't even be on the new album! I mighta missed it, but has there been confirmation that song is indeed Sirens or will be on the album?

It's just a guess that the soundcheck song is 'Sirens', but BO'B has said that a song called 'Sirens' will be on there. Was it a soundchecked live song, or a studio version played on loud speakers, we don't know, but no one recognises it so there's reason to believe it's a song by Pearl Jam. Why the 'sudden fear' it won't be on there?

Okay, fair enough. I'll have to look through that thread because I always look at a rock producer like how people have the old saying about an NFL quarterback (paraphrasing): Too much credit when the team wins, too much blame when the team loses. Now a hip hop or boy band producer, they're way more involved in the sound of a record, and anyway i quite like the sound of BO'B's other PJ records (No Code and Yield specifically).

As for the sudden fear, I don't know, but of the three new songs we know (or are at least pretty sure) will be on the new album, I really like one (MYM), think one is pretty good (LB) and am really ugh, meh on the other (FD), but the soundcheck song seemed to be more in line (granted, it's not a good recording) with my selfish needs as a fan (big fan of NAIS, Sleight of Hand, PT, etc) and I guess it would figure that it wouldn't be on Lightning Bolt.

The short story: a lot has been said about BO'B's tastes and techniques as a producer changing as he's got older, as well as how 'hands on' he is in recording, not only in his producer role but also in the fact that he wants to be part of the process of songwriting and arrangement as well. That clearly was detrimental to Backspacer. We also have quotes from the band (well, Ed) about how they didn't used to listen to a lot of what he said, whereas now (during Backspacer) they've chosen to. Again, the evidence is there to be heard, where several of PJ's tendencies were chopped and neutered and the songs were transformed into a more 'palatable' pop-orientated version of themselves. So many of us here think that all of BO'B-mixed albums you like (and we all do) were created in spite of BO'B's 'hands on' tendencies, not because of them, because PJ didn't used to go with all of his ideas. The reason I'm clutching at straws is that it's possible PJ got a bit miffed about O'Brien's 'managerial' direction again for the new album, and didn't want a Backspacer II follow up, so they abandoned recording, wrote new songs, and wanted to be present for the mixing.

What exact evidence do we have of him influencing songwriting on Backspacer? The only two I can think of are on Unthought Known and Just Breathe where he gave both songs a double chorus (or peak in the case of UK). Both of those are legit suggestions that the band easily could've refused.

I don't want to really go fishing through four years of evidence, sorry. Ed gave an interview saying that they didn't want to refuse BO'B's suggestions anymore. So yeah, could have, but didn't.

I don't really know any of this for a fact; if we did, there'd be no point in me positing any of it. Mindless speculation is what it is.

Okay, I do recall the Ed quote. Yeah, here's hoping that LB isn't BS 2. I didn't love it, but if stands as their lone attempt at a bright, poppy album, and LB is something else entirely, I will be a little more at peace with it.

Moreover, if the band actually released b-sides like they used to, we could get a better feel for that particular era. Like, can you imagine Vs without Crazy Mary or Yield without Leatherman?

Cleverman wrote:Okay, I do recall the Ed quote. Yeah, here's hoping that LB isn't BS 2. I didn't love it, but if stands as their lone attempt at a bright, poppy album, and LB is something else entirely, I will be a little more at peace with it.

Moreover, if the band actually released b-sides like they used to, we could get a better feel for that particular era. Like, can you imagine Vs without Crazy Mary or Yield without Leatherman?

Both eras would be a little bit better?

But I like Crazy Mary and Leatherman. The line "Take a bottle drink it down, pass it around" represents the last year I was really passionate about PJ (2006).

harmless wrote:Also, I just spotted this in the BO'B interview that I didn't notice before.

I think we mixed everything in Seattle. They wanted to mix up there because they all wanted to be around. It takes a little longer when everybody is around. I say a "little longer," but It probably took 10 days. That's not a long time for some people, but that seems like a long time to me.

Where they not around for all the mixing last time? That's what this seems to imply (and also that it took longer than BO'B might've hoped...). If they weren't present during the mixing of Backspacer, and they insisted that they should be present this time, maybe it's because they were relatively unhappy with the pop sound. It's only mindless speculation but it's possible, no?

To be fair, he just says they ALL wanted to be around. I highly doubt BO'B mixed Backspacer alone (I'm sure Ed was present at the very least). Also, it's not like when he finished mixing it they weren't able to ask him to make changes before it was mastered.

(And if they did let him mix it and then send it off to be mastered without listening to it? Well then they care even less than even the most cynical posters claim they do...)

harmless wrote:

But I like Crazy Mary and Leatherman. The line "Take a bottle drink it down, pass it around" represents the last year I was really passionate about PJ (2006).

I like leatherman, and crazy mary is okay live occasionally. I really dislike the studio crazy mary.

wasn't it just him and ed last time?