First, there was a trailer shown at Comic Con that was leaked online last night. Apparently, its scenes are from Episodes 2+3, and it's mostly new footage: do not watch if you want to go into those episodes completely cold.
Second: I just heard this theory for the first time the other day, although it has been floating around for a more than a year. It relates to the words that Lyanna whispered to Ned at the Tower of Joy that we can't hear:
Using this post on Reddit as a jumping-off point, the theory is that after Lyanna says "His name is...[mubles]" that it's a three-syllable word beginning with a "J." The idea is that Jon's name is Jaehaerys, named after two former Targaryen kings known to be peace-makers and protectors of the realm (Jaehaerys I and Jaehaerys II; J-II was the Mad King's father and Maester Aemon's nephew). This would make since dramatically, as Jon will--at least it seems--be involved in uniting the realm and bringing on a new reign of peace. It's also an interesting tidbit that hints (but even if it were true, it wouldn't confirm) that Jon, née Jaehaerys, is trueborn--it'd make much more since for a trueborn son to be named after a legendary Targ than for that name to be given to a bastard.
Re: HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)
Posted: Sat July 22, 2017 3:52 pm
by epilogue
So, ST, are you saying in your second spoiler that
There are all sorts of little hints scattered around, but nothing that confirms it. Like: it'd make sense that the Kingsguard at the Tower of Joy would be protecting a member of the royal family (Jon), but they could've just been there under Rhaegar's orders. And Rhaegar is painted as the total opposite of his father in so many ways, it doesn't really jive that he'd have a mistress on the side (but since polygamy was known in the Targaryen line, it would be above-board, technically, if they were married). But, again, not confirmed. Also noteworthy: Rhaegar was a huge believer in the prophesy of The Prince That Was Promised, and so was Jaehaerys II, who forced his children (the Mad King and his sister) to marry in order to help it be fulfilled. So it wouldn't be shocking if Rhaegar gave Jon that name as a tribute.
Re: HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)
Posted: Sat July 22, 2017 4:17 pm
by epilogue
Interesting. So, maybe this sounds like a snarky question, my apologies if it does but...
Does it really matter? What difference does it make if they were married? Other than Jon being true born or pure born or thoroughbred or whatever, does it change anything in the story?
Again, sorry if that's snarky. I don't mean it to be. I'm really just curious.
The way power works in the show right now (i.e., "Power resides where men believe it to reside"), it doesn't matter all that much. But, I think it's important to remember how Dany always describes her claim to the Iron Throne: she says it's her birthright, that she should be queen because of who she is. If she really, really believes that strongly in the Targaryen's line of succession, then she would have to let Jon climb the throne if it can be proven who he is and if he's trueborn. That'd be an interesting turn for Dany's character: she's gone through so much to get to where she is, would she be willing to give it all up because her nephew popped up out of nowhere?
The way power works in the show right now (i.e., "Power resides where men believe it to reside"), it doesn't matter all that much. But, I think it's important to remember how Dany always describes her claim to the Iron Throne: she says it's her birthright, that she should be queen because of who she is. If she really, really believes that strongly in the Targaryen's line of succession, then she would have to let Jon climb the throne if it can be proven who he is and if he's trueborn. That'd be an interesting turn for Dany's character: she's gone through so much to get to where she is, would she be willing to give it all up because her nephew popped up out of nowhere?
I hadn't even considered what would happen if the show came down to a showdown between Dany and Jon. How cool would it be if the big massive war for Westeros ended in like the third or fourth episode next season and the final two or three episodes were just a mini show down battle between them? That could be fucking unreal!
I get confused on all the bloodline stuff, especially if I tune out for a while. And I haven't thought about GoT in a year. For some reason I thought Dany and Jon would be brother/sister, not Aunt/Nephew. I got it all straight now.
I get confused on all the bloodline stuff, especially if I tune out for a while. And I haven't thought about GoT in a year. For some reason I thought Dany and Jon would be brother/sister, not Aunt/Nephew. I got it all straight now.
Yeah, it can be confusing, especially since lots of this is emphasized over and over in the books but has been mentioned once--if at all--in the show.
Anders is right, though: Jon's the oldest surviving kid of the oldest surviving kid--but that's not to say gender doesn't come into play, too. Before Cersei, there had never been a Queen of the 7 Kingdoms, so to think everybody would be cool with Dany (think about what's going on with Jon and Sansa in the North) is a stretch.
I get confused on all the bloodline stuff, especially if I tune out for a while. And I haven't thought about GoT in a year. For some reason I thought Dany and Jon would be brother/sister, not Aunt/Nephew. I got it all straight now.
Yeah, it can be confusing, especially since lots of this is emphasized over and over in the books but has been mentioned once--if at all--in the show.
Anders is right, though: Jon's the oldest surviving kid of the oldest surviving kid--but that's not to say gender doesn't come into play, too. Before Cersei, there had never been a Queen of the 7 Kingdoms, so to think everybody would be cool with Dany (think about what's going on with Jon and Sansa in the North) is a stretch.
Exactly. There's where I was going to go with it. I think that's one of my favorite aspects of the story. Feast is my favorite book because it deals so much with that stuff --
-- and I'm a little bummed that the show hasn't done more with it. Though, it does look like this season may be on the way toward changing that.
Re: HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)
Posted: Sat July 22, 2017 5:06 pm
by epilogue
Separately, I'm gonna set the over/under on number of times we hear "winter is hear" this season at 16.
Re: HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)
Posted: Sat July 22, 2017 5:43 pm
by Simple Torture
durdencommatyler wrote:Separately, I'm gonna set the over/under on number of times we hear "winter is hear" this season at 16.
Is winter louder now for some reason?
Re: HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)
Posted: Sat July 22, 2017 5:55 pm
by Anders
I believe all people are created equal and should have every chance to succeed, regardless of gender, sexuality or ethnicity, and no doubt GRRM feels the same way. However, this show isn't our world in 2017. The story should come first, not pushing any agenda. Of course the show doesn't have the books to follow any more, but whatever GRRM decides to do, will probably be the right decision.
That said I have nothing against women ruling in the show, if its on the Iron Islands (should happen), or Sansa ruling the north if Jon gets busy elsewhere, the women in Dorne, or Arya doing whatever she does. Not huge on Daenarys myself, but I'm sure whatever happens to her will be interesting.
Re: HBO: Game of Thrones (Song of Ice and Fire)
Posted: Sat July 22, 2017 6:18 pm
by BurtReynolds
A major conflict between Jon and Dany over the throne would be a lot more interesting than them teaming up. It would be boring if Dany just dropped her nearly villainous obsession with the throne, or if Jon wasn't interested in being king. Or if one of them died.
But it's probably about time they started wrapping up all the story lines.
