Red Mosquito

living in a post Post Malone world

bodysnatcher wrote:living in a post Post Malone world

Jason Isbell wrote Outfit, Decoration Day, Goddamn Lonely Love, Danko/Manuel, Never Gonna Change, and TVA before he turned 25.

tragabigzanda wrote:

run2death wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

run2death wrote:Isn't that a fairly common thing in pop music... for the primary artist (and usually the producer) to get all the credit?

Totally common, but that's not what we're talking about exactly. It's about Lauryn Hill's weird working rules, which basically say she's a queen and no one does or says anything without her explicit permission.

I was talking more about his accusation that she stole everything.

ah, i missed that part. yeah this is really common.

I don't know if it's fairly common, but there was actually a lawsuit which was settled for $5 million:

Miseducation‘s liner notes mostly credit Hill with producing, writing and arranging the entire album. It was, in fact, a huge group effort, as underlined by a lawsuit settled out of court in 2001 for a reported $5 million.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/musi ... ll-252219/

Here's an interesting LA Times article about the lawsuit from 1998: http://articles.latimes.com/1998/dec/19 ... t/ca-55439

Jason has a line in there where he says that he doesn't really listen to the lyrics, it's more about the voice as an instrument and that really resonated with me and it made my relationship with certain genres make more sense. For example, rap music. There are times when I don't get the reference or I don't have the life experience but the right flow over the right beat and it's on.

Same thing applies to a lot of albums, the more I think about it. Thom Yorke's Eraser for example. His voice just kind of rolls over the music and interacts with it in a way that hits me in the right spot. Villains by QOTSA is another example.

bune wrote:

Jason has a line in there where he says that he doesn't really listen to the lyrics, it's more about the voice as an instrument and that really resonated with me and it made my relationship with certain genres make more sense. For example, rap music. There are times when I don't get the reference or I don't have the life experience but the right flow over the right beat and it's on.

Same thing applies to a lot of albums, the more I think about it. Thom Yorke's Eraser for example. His voice just kind of rolls over the music and interacts with it in a way that hits me in the right spot. Villains by QOTSA is another example.

That is how i listen to music as well. I'd be hard pressed to tell you what most Pearl jam songs are about or what he is actually saying.

agreed. it very much depends on the band for me, though. some bands, the words are absolutely a focal point, versus just the voice being an instrument. Pearl Jam, The National... tthose types of bands put emphasis on the vocals and words, even through the production of the record. other bands, i could care less what they're actually saying. Radiohead is my favorite band, but i could probably recite maybe 10 lines of varying songs. the vocal just adds to the music. phrases will stick out to me as interesting, but i'm not trying to find a story or a connection.

I have never personally related to that line of thinking. I do agree that lyrics are far less important in some music, but a lot of my favorite artists are lyricists as much as they are musicians and the lyrics are part of what make their music great (Waits, Dylan, Costello, Cohen, Springsteen, pretty much every rapper I like). I've learned to be forgiving of weak lyrics over the years, I realize they're just one component of the overall experience, but they do register with me as an equal part of that experience (for me, probably a greater part than some other things that other people obsess over, such as details in the mastering and other audiophile stuff).

I'm much more aligned with the bune/bodysnatcher school on this one. Give me sound all day long, please. Lyrics and voice are just an instrument to my ears*


*With obvious Dylan/Cohen/Townes Van Zandt related exemptions...

Speaking of sound, here's a clip of what kind of sounds I've really been feeling lately:

I do listen to a lot of music where the sonic experience clearly takes precedence, but if the lyrics are present and in focus, they absolutely matter to me. I like to think I can weigh their importance in any given work, but still...I'm attuned to them as something beyond just an additional instrument in the mix.

I used Thom as an example for that very reason. I mean, the lyrics for Kid A and amnesiac are just copy/paste jobs.

Yorke wrote many of Kid A's lyrics by cutting up words and phrases and assembling them at random, combining everyday cliches and banal observations ("Where'd you park the car?") with violent imagery ("Cut the kids in half").[49] Radiohead used Yorke's lyrics "like pieces in a collage ... [creating] an artwork out of a lot of different little things".[2] The lyrics are not included in the liner notes, as Radiohead felt they could not be considered independently of the music.[50]

Also there are certainly songs where the lyrics mean a lot to me. Usually it's the ones that are less abstract and are telling a story of a sort.

bune wrote:I used Thom as an example for that very reason. I mean, the lyrics for Kid A and amnesiac are just copy/paste jobs.

Yorke wrote many of Kid A's lyrics by cutting up words and phrases and assembling them at random, combining everyday cliches and banal observations ("Where'd you park the car?") with violent imagery ("Cut the kids in half").[49] Radiohead used Yorke's lyrics "like pieces in a collage ... [creating] an artwork out of a lot of different little things".[2] The lyrics are not included in the liner notes, as Radiohead felt they could not be considered independently of the music.[50]

Also there are certainly songs where the lyrics mean a lot to me. Usually it's the ones that are less abstract and are telling a story of a sort.

yeah, i think that's the key difference: songs and lyrics that are telling a story

bune wrote:I used Thom as an example for that very reason. I mean, the lyrics for Kid A and amnesiac are just copy/paste jobs.

Yorke wrote many of Kid A's lyrics by cutting up words and phrases and assembling them at random, combining everyday cliches and banal observations ("Where'd you park the car?") with violent imagery ("Cut the kids in half").[49] Radiohead used Yorke's lyrics "like pieces in a collage ... [creating] an artwork out of a lot of different little things".[2] The lyrics are not included in the liner notes, as Radiohead felt they could not be considered independently of the music.[50]

Also there are certainly songs where the lyrics mean a lot to me. Usually it's the ones that are less abstract and are telling a story of a sort.

And to me this seems like a very deliberate method of lyric writing, such that the contrast in sentiments and imagery is designed to impact the listener's response to the song, rather than just being dummy words plugged in to fill that plane of sound. They are nonlinear, but calling them "random" seems inaccurate.

Radiohead's lyrics are great, they add so much to my enjoyment of their music.

Abstract != random

Absolutely not

he is abstract and bored
too much milk and honey

Kevin Davis wrote:Absolutely not

Just trying to figure out where random came from, that's all.

edit: Ah, from the Wikipedia article. Gotcha.

dad wrote:he is abstract and bored
too much milk and honey

washing machine wrote:I'm much more aligned with the bune/bodysnatcher school on this one. Give me sound all day long, please. Lyrics and voice are just an instrument to my ears*


*With obvious Dylan/Cohen/Townes Van Zandt related exemptions...

Same here, without the exemptions.

I've found I simply can't connect with any music where the focus is on the lyrics, or some kind of narrative, to the extent where the music feels subservient, and I feel that way about Dylan, Cohen, etc.