Red Mosquito

WtOB? wrote:

96583UP wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

96583UP wrote:

WtOB? wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:We just need to let the cycle play out.

where is this from?

a Tarantino flick?

this guy looks so cold he is turning blue!

should warm up with a desert walk or something

You guys are the Gallagher of RM humor.

I get the sense that some folks here are not respecting the directive.

So unsure how to feel right now. Kevin Davis’s post was pretty spot on. I understand the desire to not have people peeking behind the curtain.

I think what would help, if possible, is for some additional information about what PJ management conveyed to RM’s operators. Why such drastic action or threats of action? Or at least what inferences can be made from what was conveyed. Were these files suddenly circulating because they are prepping Lost Dogs 2, or something along those lines?

The ban on discussion, ultimately, seems pretty bonkers. Granting all the artistic considerations, such an order seems so antithetical to what this band ultimately stands for. And as for commercial considerations, yeah, my god, everyone here who gives a damn about the leak will eagerly pump thousands of dollars into PJ bank accounts in the years ahead. Especially for this sort of thing.

I don’t see anyone here talking about the songs we’re not supposed to talk about.

dad wrote:I don’t see anyone here talking about the songs we’re not supposed to talk about.

Good , we aren't supposed to we are leaving our punk rock inclinations behind and trying to help B and Stip for now.

if ed vedder and his wife are willing to sue a sick 12-year-old australian girl, they'll happily sue stip, b, cckaraoke AND EVERYONE YOU CARE ABOUT.

WWKRD

B and Stip write a book talking about songs.

More songs appear then disappear.

B and Stip tell us not to talk about said songs.

The question is: Are we at war with Eurasia or Eastasia?

WtOB? wrote:How a Drunken Night at Club Deuce Led to a Legendary Jam Session With Eddie Vedder

Haha Club Deuce

LetMeSleep wrote:Further to this, CCK has not posted today. Is he still able to? All but 2 of his posts are now non public.

I'm alive. Just haven't slept in a .. what day is it? Thanks for the laughs reading through the last ten pages.
I think .. there's so much I don't begin to know, and I can only spend hours guessing.
But I'll just say that I've always loved PJ, and always will. I have more appreciation for them now than I did previous.

..Since this is a random PJ thoughts thread, here's some of my today/yesterday thoughts on a totally unrelated matter;
I'm going to say you know .. the landscape of 1995 and 2025 are so different.
I've had to spend the last couple days pouring through my entire channel and identifying which songs belong to which label for .. reasons.. .. and I remember watching the PJ20 doc. That attempt to break free during Vitalogy must have been tough. I can only imagine. ..and I think it would have to be so much easier as a small venue band than trying to direct 20,000 people a night. When I went to see them here in Vancouver a couple months ago with my sister. The part where Ed invited a kid (maybe 10 years old) up onto stage to drink wine with .. that was f'in awesome in every way. I paid $500 for us. I couldn't even really be mad given how many people it takes to manage a stadium. Maybe the reality is that without certain contracts they couldn't book a venue big enough for everyone to be able to attend, but I know for a fact that we'd all attend if they were Pearl Jam, owned by Pearl Jam, signed to Pearl Jam.

I don't know what the future holds for music.. not for sure .. but I have spent many hundreds of hours in the last couple years .. well probably a fair bit more than that, just diving into the deep end of indie unknown artists, and it blew me away. The absolute best new music in the world right now is being played by bands with a few hundred or a few thousand followers. I made a playlist lol. Dunno if I'm allowed to link it, but if I'll just mention one, check out 'Another Sky - Burn The Way' also I Never Had Control
Teddy Rizzo - Oxygen also Self Destruct /// Friendship Commanders - And My Body /// Whitepaper - Superheroes /// Sun Arcana - Oxygen (Acoustic) /// Dosser - Dark Air /// Robbie Fitzsimmons - Making Castles /// Hayden Thorpe - In The Drift /// Seb Lowe - Mr & Mrs Human Race /// Junodream - Kitchen Sink Drama /// The Others Are Dead Steve - The Inevitable March Of Disco /// A Tiger Made Of Lightning - The Time Spent /// Heartworms - May I Comply ...
ahh to F with it, here's the dang playlist LOL https://open.spotify.com/playlist/12JJJ ... XyqPelBu9d

I propose that Pearl Jam should put some effort into a live vault series by dusting off some multi-tracks from the 90's and mixing them (and patching or not patching the tape changes) or actually do a legitimate studio outtakes dig like Uncle Neil would, instead of worrying about and censoring what fans talk about and listen to in their desperation for any hidden scrap (and there wouldn't be much of a need anyway if they did).

And fuck off with resorting to remastering old bootlegs, and expensive vinyl releases made from the same (badly) digitally remastered files as if they're really comin' atcha with a big favor.

I can't decide if their behavior in this regard and in other ways is fan-unfriendly or just plain clueless. It certainly doesn't give you the feels unless you're just as daft. Maybe I'm wrong, but I get more of a Pink Floyd/Eric Clapton vibe from some of their actions in recent years than the generous and liberal band we once knew and loved.

Someone, somewhere, at some point, stole their personal material of demos, unreleased songs, rehearsal tapes etc. they were stolen. End of story. We're not entitled to it. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Yea, it's disappointing we don't have every fucking second of recorded music that Pearl jam has done over the last 30 years but damn, some of it ain't for us. If they decide to comb through their music and release it like Neil, then they will and we can enjoy it at a later date.

Exactly this ^
It’s theft whatever way you come at it. At the very least. And we have no right or entitlement to any of it.

Strat wrote:Someone, somewhere, at some point, stole their personal material of demos, unreleased songs, rehearsal tapes etc. they were stolen. End of story. We're not entitled to it. It's really not that difficult to understand.

Yea, it's disappointing we don't have every fucking second of recorded music that Pearl jam has done over the last 30 years but damn, some of it ain't for us. If they decide to comb through their music and release it like Neil, then they will and we can enjoy it at a later date.

Agree, this is the moral response. Selfishly, I want to hear it all, but this feels like one of those Karma moments for all us jaded assholes here to right the scales

I would be willing to bet even money that the impetus behind whatever the heck this kerfuffle was:

Some over-ambitious legal intern somewhere in the warren of the throat-cutting record label corporate hellscape thought he or show could grow their private parts a couple of basis points by slapping Pearl Jam the legal entity with a cease and desist because someone in the PJ world once upon a time leaked material that said basis-point-thirsty intern argued their overlord record company owned by contract.

It would explain the threat to cut off 10 Club membership because Pearl Jam would need to prove they were in no way profiting from the material or any individuals associated with dissemination. It would explain the gag order here for the same reason--this site constitutes a promotional entity on their behalf and they directly benefit from any publicity of any kind here. They can't have legally-traceable association of any kind with the material whether $$ or verbal promotion.

In the world of corporate usury, you could make an argument and convince me that art does not and cannot exist. You enter that world only as a commodity for the people who built all of the business apparati they used to lure you in (recording advances, promotional weight, tour management, etc.)

Faustus is always dragged to hell in the end.

I am not going to claim to know the impetus behind why leak A triggers a certain type of reaction and leak B does not.

But strat/dime are right, I think. This is material that was stolen. This wasn't a commercial release we just got to access early (and perhaps would then be tempted not to purchase).

And this was material that, for whatever reason, the artists who created did not want to share. In fact we know a lot of this material was intentionally shelved because they did not want to release it, which is one of the reasons why the Lightning Bolt -> Gigaton gap was so long.

As a fan, I always want more. I am passionate about this music. It adds to my life. And even if I don't always love or care about a particular piece of it, every bit of music I can access helps shape or recontextualize my relationship to the rest. Pearl Jam is a tapestry for me at this point. And so when something is available I will seek it out. And then I will seek people to talk about it with, because I enjoy this music more as part of a community than an individual.

But if the artist who created the work deemed it private, and not for public consumption, for whatever reason, that's their right, and I respect it. Each piece of music is a reflection on them as artists. We will judge it. We will critique it And it is an expression of their own selves that they may wish to keep for themselves. And I don't think we have the right to question why they want to do so.

It's what we would all want to see in our own lives. We don't expect every text we send to someone to be made public. We don't want the rough draft of our office power point shared. We don't want people to see the outcomes of our projects until they are completed and we can be proud of them.

If that stuff gets shared I think it's legitimate for it to feel invasive. Even violated. The level of that violation may depend on the quantity of what is shared. It may be the quality. It could be that it is personal, and not for us.

Maybe this isn't about money, or public perception, or the cultivation of fandom. Maybe it's about how they identify as artists and human beings knowing that we will be judging them as both.

As a fan forum, we privileges our fan identities. But if we are asked to occasionally think about the band's humanity and to allow that to supersede our fan need, that's a sacrifice I am comfortable making. We spend most of our fandom in gray spaces where we need to navigate these boundaries ourselves. But when someone comes out and asks you to prioritize their humanity, it's not hard to figure out what to do.

well said stip i agree.

Im also happy we know for a fact these dudes write a lot of music. This band is in great shape.

Calm down, people. None of that is really what I was saying, but okay.

I'm going beyond this leak (and the censorship imposed) and looking at the bigger picture and how they've been handling a multitude of things in stark contrast to their reputation and supposed intentions. I haven't attributed it to anything because I don't really know wtf they're thinking.

And nobody is obligated to kiss their asses regardless of what they throw at us or how we're treated either. They've got millions of dollars, we don't, but we're ultimately providing them with more. This seems to get lost when discussing any artist and their generosity or lack thereof. Or even beyond the realm of art and into mere consumerism, it seems to be a huge problem these days. There is this one-sided attitude about it as if the paying customer is being done a huge favor. It's not "entitlement" to expect a give and take, or to critique what is being provided or how it is being handled.

This might not apply to PJ after all, or maybe it's just an indicator of a sad state of affairs internally. I don't know. But it's something I've been wondering about for quite a while.

i don’t think anyone on this board thinks we are entitled to this music. no one had any complaints when the link was removed.

Yeah, who are the people vociferously demanding that the content is allowed to be distributed?

Stopping distribution of leaked materials makes complete sense to me. It's the added clause of "also you're not allowed to talk about it" that rubbed me the wrong way.

Even so, as others pointed out, that also makes a kind of sense because discussion can lead to people asking for the leak privately... so even discussion about not being allowed to discuss it should be off limits. We're currently not complying because we've been talking about the leaked materials for pages and pages! All this navel-gazing about stolen materials and the breach of the artistic process and our responsibility as fans is just spreading the word even wider lol