Red Mosquito

tree_ wrote:It's so easy and more than reasonable to hate on the party that lost to Donald Trump twice

BurtReynolds wrote:Why wouldn't a dedication to free speech, colorblind society and dismantling shadowy government organizations be a great narrative? These were all formerly liberal causes!

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

Fascinating. "Realistic" is about the last word I would use to describe that contingent. I mean, literally, just look at his last post before this.

Realistic insofar as they share an identified set of problems and solutions, and currently wield all chambers of government to enact those solutions, for better or worse.

epilogue wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Why wouldn't a dedication to free speech, colorblind society and dismantling shadowy government organizations be a great narrative? These were all formerly liberal causes!

They still are.

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

Fascinating. "Realistic" is about the last word I would use to describe that contingent. I mean, literally, just look at his last post before this.

Realistic insofar as they share an identified set of problems and solutions, and currently wield all chambers of government to enact those solutions, for better or worse.

"Solutions" is also a fascinating (and I think bizarre) weird to use.

BurtReynolds wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:

epilogue wrote:But also... how telling (and genuinely shocking) that you're making that comment about the "left" but yet have never had issues with the shit those on the right are saying here. I can't wrap my head around that.

Mostly because it's not worth the time; McP does a fine job of launching well-articulated reasonable arguments against GOP policy.

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland). So it's easier for me to criticize that which I once believed wholeheartedly, and where I feel (rightly or not) where I can offer more novel opinions. Like, I wish the democrats would begin to embrace things like nuclear energy and fossil fuel, a defensive military posture that eschewed the big brother watchdogging of the post-WWII globalist complex, a social services mindset that embraced the great wealth transfer rather than Federal subsidies. So much opportunity to tell a compelling story if you could just let go of the last 20 years of programming.

And you feel Burt and his ilk are doing that? Are providing a compelling story?

Oh heavens no. But they seem more realistic than idealistic, which is proving to be a more actionable strategy at the ballot box

Fascinating. "Realistic" is about the last word I would use to describe that contingent. I mean, literally, just look at his last post before this.

Realistic insofar as they share an identified set of problems and solutions, and currently wield all chambers of government to enact those solutions, for better or worse.

"Solutions" is also a fascinating (and I think bizarre) weird to use.

What word would you use?

BurtReynolds wrote:It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

epilogue wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

Wow

We'll, there you go, Trag. Here is your "realistic" hero.

BurtReynolds wrote:I mean, even Hitler had a solution!

BurtReynolds wrote:On practicality, I think after decades of fake Republican support for their agenda, conservative voters learned to completely discount politicians saying the right things in favor of people who act in a directionally aligned way, regardless of who they are as people. It really doesn't matter that your chosen candidate says all the right things at press conferences. Again, no one cares anymore.

I kept waiting for dem voters to adapt the same way, but fear of Trump kept them in line

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:I mean, even Hitler had a solution!

Just uh, just in case you didn’t know, not all solutions are good solutions. Working towards a terrible solution is not… eh never mind.

BurtReynolds wrote:

epilogue wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

Wow

We'll, there you go, Trag. Here is your "realistic" hero.

Yes, it's realistic to assume even your political enemies are working towards solutions (fucked as they are) to problems, not cartoon villains bent on serving evil like Skeletor. I don't think this is controversial.