How The West Was Won And Where It Got Us: An REM Thread

[Kevin Davis]

I like Collapse Into Now but I am surprised at the number of people who rate it so highly comparatively. To me it seems like maybe the only REM record with no distinguishing features. I dunno, maybe that's what does it for people.

[philpritchard]

I like Collapse Into Now but I am surprised at the number of people who rate it so highly comparatively. To me it seems like maybe the only REM record with no distinguishing features. I dunno, maybe that's what does it for people.

I enjoy listening to even its weaker moments, and its high points are among my favourite REM songs. I could listen to the Uberlin-Oh My Heart-It Happened Today stretch on repeat all day, and Blue might be my favourite on the album.

With Up, the highs have never really drawn me in to the point where I listened to the whole album over and over the way I have with Collapse Into Now, so maybe that's why it's never really clicked for me. Maybe all I need is an Up binge for a couple days.

[AndySlash]

To me it seems like maybe the only REM record with no distinguishing features. I dunno, maybe that's what does it for people.

i can see that. in my opinion, it breaks no new ground for them as most of their previous albums had done. but it is a quintessential r.e.m. album, incorporating everything they had done previously into one final, concise swan song.

"we're r.e.m. and this is what we do."

indeed.

[EJ]

So what are the highly recommended concerts to listen to? I've listened to this band for a really long time, but never bothered seeking out their live shows. I've been listening to the Weisbaden 2003 concert quite a bit recently and think its pretty outstanding. I'm generally looking for post 1998 shows to get a good mix of the more recent era songs too.

[stip]

have you heard any of the official live releases. The olympia discs are off the charts great. The other live cd is okay--it's principle value is the around the sun songs, most of which are better live than on the CD

[stip]

To me it seems like maybe the only REM record with no distinguishing features. I dunno, maybe that's what does it for people.

i can see that. in my opinion, it breaks no new ground for them as most of their previous albums had done. but it is a quintessential r.e.m. album, incorporating everything they had done previously into one final, concise swan song.

"we're r.e.m. and this is what we do."

indeed.

exactly. Although, following KD's point, it does make sense that after this album they would call it quits. It was the first REM album with nothing new to say

[EJ]

have you heard any of the official live releases. The olympia discs are off the charts great. The other live cd is okay--it's principle value is the around the sun songs, most of which are better live than on the CD

I've heard a fair amount of Olympia, and yes its amazing, just need to actually get it now. Specifically, Harborcoat. Never thought much of that song until I heard the live version. Really outstanding.

I'm more interested in actual concerts than that live cd. Not a fan of Around The Sun at all. Just want to check out a few more shows probably in the 1998-2007 decade.

[stip]

I've heard a bunch of boots from those years, and own a few, but none have ever really stood out. They were very consistent.

There was a radio broadcast of a great show from Milton Keynes in 1995 that i'd highly recommend. Better versions of Undertow and Departure than what ended up on the Hi-Fi, as well as a fantastic Revolution (infintiely better than the shitty studio recording)

[Coach]

I've heard a bunch of boots from those years, and own a few, but none have ever really stood out. They were very consistent.

There was a radio broadcast of a great show from Milton Keynes in 1995 that i'd highly recommend. Better versions of Undertow and Departure than what ended up on the Hi-Fi, as well as a fantastic Revolution (infintiely better than the shitty studio recording)

I think I paid like $50 for that CD back in the day at some bootleg shop...it is great.

[Kevin Davis]

To me it seems like maybe the only REM record with no distinguishing features. I dunno, maybe that's what does it for people.

i can see that. in my opinion, it breaks no new ground for them as most of their previous albums had done. but it is a quintessential r.e.m. album, incorporating everything they had done previously into one final, concise swan song.

"we're r.e.m. and this is what we do."

indeed.

exactly. Although, following KD's point, it does make sense that after this album they would call it quits. It was the first REM album with nothing new to say

Like I said, I do like Collapse Into Now. Hearing them coast along on what came naturally to them is pleasurable, and they were entitled to one album of it--see it as a victory lap of sorts. I find it difficult to actively dislike anything by REM--there are very few things in their catalog I would say that about.

[stip]

I can think of probably less than 10 songs

[epilogue]

Maybe I don't like REM. It seems like the stuff that the hardcore fans call generic and/or obvious is the stuff I really like. Collapse Into Now being maybe the primary example of this. But also, I really don't care much for anything before Green. No, I mean, I like Pageant a lot, and there are some brilliant individual songs peppered throughout the run up to Green. But Green is the first REM album that I really like, front to back. The next one is Automatic. From then on, I think REM is pretty fantastic.

Top 5:
Hi-Fi
Automatic
Collapse
Up
Monster

[stip]

I think a lot of collapse is fantastic. few will say that there is anything wrong with the songs. It's just the first time that they kind of feel like they're repeating ideas. But they do it really well, and in some cases (like It Happened Today) manage to not only encompass what their signature sound was, but improve upon it.

The IRS REM is something of a different band (especially the first three albums). It makes sense that you might like the later stuff and not those.

[epilogue]

The IRS REM is something of a different band (especially the first three albums). It makes sense that you might like the later stuff and not those.

I'm glad to hear you say this. Or to read you write this.

[matt reeder]

So what are the highly recommended concerts to listen to? I've listened to this band for a really long time, but never bothered seeking out their live shows. I've been listening to the Weisbaden 2003 concert quite a bit recently and think its pretty outstanding. I'm generally looking for post 1998 shows to get a good mix of the more recent era songs too.

I'm particularly fond of these shows:

11/19/1995 - Atlanta, GA - 2nd-to-last show of the Monster tour, perfect sound, great performance.
11/21/1995 - Atlanta, GA - last show of the Monster tour, 5 songs from Hi-Fi, perfect sound, Radio Free Europe...just awesome.
8/31/1999 - Atlanta, GA - hometown show during the Up tour, tons of Monster, rare performance of Camera, FM
9/05/1999 - Camden, NJ - similar to above, but with Pilgrimage and Cuyahoga, and better sound. I love this tour.
8/31/2003 - Missoula, MT - on Youtube (I don't have it); great setlist, great sound, great stories.
10/07/2003 - Clinton Studios, New York - six song studio set: Occupation, Electrolite, Bad Day, Man on the Moon, Pretty Persuasion, Losing My Religion - just perfect.
10/29/2003 - Los Angeles, CA - Full promo show, interesting setlist; Sweetness Follows, Strange Currencies and World Leader Pretend!
6/03/2005 - Rock Am Ring Festival - Leave! almost full pro-shot. Oh, and Leave!
10/10/2005 - Athens, GA - performed at a wedding, short set with Bill Berry on drums and perfect sound. AWESOME.
7/16/2008 - Berlin, DE - Full satellite FM broadcast. Worth it for the West of the Fields>What's the Frequency Kenneth? combo.

And yes, the Olympia set is awesome.

[Kevin Davis]

The IRS REM is something of a different band (especially the first three albums). It makes sense that you might like the later stuff and not those.

Yeah, definitely. I wouldn't go so far as to say the first three albums sound like a different band (what about them, exactly?), but overall REM's propensity for craft developed by degrees as they progressed, and they're too principled a band for me to think it's because Warners Bros. was pressuring them to write hits. As I always do, I would encourage Joey to check out the ''Olympia'' album to see how those IRS songs play out at the fingertips of a more tightly rehearsed band with a more confident singer. They lose some of their mystique and spirit, but overall I think you get a much better sense of how much guts some of those songs really have. ''Carnival of Sorts'' became one of my favorite REM songs after that live album.

Ultimately, all the stuff about artists repeating themselves or having nothing new to say is purely academic--a superficial reason to write off songs that nonetheless have the capacity to succeed or fail based on their own compositional strengths or deficiencies. In the end I listen to music for songs, not ''ideas,'' and don't really care that a record like ''Collapse'' is just the latest incarnation of an established sound--it's certainly a one-of-a-kind sound, after all, and one I've taken pleasure in for over half my life. And especially if you don't have fifteen years of listening to REM under your belt, getting into that sound through ''Collapse'' will probably be no different to you than getting into it elsewhere--it will just be down to which songs strike you and which ones don't. But after years of watching the band follow various impulses, seeing them do a record that basically amounted to business-as-usual was somewhat disappointing. The disappointment hasn't really lingered, and hearing that record now with the sense of finality it didn't carry at the time of its release does it something of a service. Still, I stand by calling it a victory lap, and the thing about a victory lap is that there's no longer anything at stake in it. I will always prefer the records where you can feel that tension, that vitality, from when the race was still on.

[EJ]

So what are the highly recommended concerts to listen to? I've listened to this band for a really long time, but never bothered seeking out their live shows. I've been listening to the Weisbaden 2003 concert quite a bit recently and think its pretty outstanding. I'm generally looking for post 1998 shows to get a good mix of the more recent era songs too.

I'm particularly fond of these shows:

11/19/1995 - Atlanta, GA - 2nd-to-last show of the Monster tour, perfect sound, great performance.
11/21/1995 - Atlanta, GA - last show of the Monster tour, 5 songs from Hi-Fi, perfect sound, Radio Free Europe...just awesome.
8/31/1999 - Atlanta, GA - hometown show during the Up tour, tons of Monster, rare performance of Camera, FM
9/05/1999 - Camden, NJ - similar to above, but with Pilgrimage and Cuyahoga, and better sound. I love this tour.
8/31/2003 - Missoula, MT - on Youtube (I don't have it); great setlist, great sound, great stories.
10/07/2003 - Clinton Studios, New York - six song studio set: Occupation, Electrolite, Bad Day, Man on the Moon, Pretty Persuasion, Losing My Religion - just perfect.
10/29/2003 - Los Angeles, CA - Full promo show, interesting setlist; Sweetness Follows, Strange Currencies and World Leader Pretend!
6/03/2005 - Rock Am Ring Festival - Leave! almost full pro-shot. Oh, and Leave!
10/10/2005 - Athens, GA - performed at a wedding, short set with Bill Berry on drums and perfect sound. AWESOME.
7/16/2008 - Berlin, DE - Full satellite FM broadcast. Worth it for the West of the Fields>What's the Frequency Kenneth? combo.

And yes, the Olympia set is awesome.

Great, thanks Matt!

[stip]

So what are the highly recommended concerts to listen to? I've listened to this band for a really long time, but never bothered seeking out their live shows. I've been listening to the Weisbaden 2003 concert quite a bit recently and think its pretty outstanding. I'm generally looking for post 1998 shows to get a good mix of the more recent era songs too.

I'm particularly fond of these shows:

11/19/1995 - Atlanta, GA - 2nd-to-last show of the Monster tour, perfect sound, great performance.
11/21/1995 - Atlanta, GA - last show of the Monster tour, 5 songs from Hi-Fi, perfect sound, Radio Free Europe...just awesome.
8/31/1999 - Atlanta, GA - hometown show during the Up tour, tons of Monster, rare performance of Camera, FM
9/05/1999 - Camden, NJ - similar to above, but with Pilgrimage and Cuyahoga, and better sound. I love this tour.
8/31/2003 - Missoula, MT - on Youtube (I don't have it); great setlist, great sound, great stories.
10/07/2003 - Clinton Studios, New York - six song studio set: Occupation, Electrolite, Bad Day, Man on the Moon, Pretty Persuasion, Losing My Religion - just perfect.
10/29/2003 - Los Angeles, CA - Full promo show, interesting setlist; Sweetness Follows, Strange Currencies and World Leader Pretend!
6/03/2005 - Rock Am Ring Festival - Leave! almost full pro-shot. Oh, and Leave!
10/10/2005 - Athens, GA - performed at a wedding, short set with Bill Berry on drums and perfect sound. AWESOME.
7/16/2008 - Berlin, DE - Full satellite FM broadcast. Worth it for the West of the Fields>What's the Frequency Kenneth? combo.

And yes, the Olympia set is awesome.

Jesus, your knowledge is vast

[philpritchard]

[quote="Kevin Davis"]And especially if you don't have fifteen years of listening to REM under your belt, getting into that sound through ''Collapse'' will probably be no different to you than getting into it elsewhere--it will just be down to which songs strike you and which ones don't. But after years of watching the band follow various impulses, seeing them do a record that basically amounted to business-as-usual was somewhat disappointing. The disappointment hasn't really lingered, and hearing that record now with the sense of finality it didn't carry at the time of its release does it something of a service. Still, I stand by calling it a victory lap, and the thing about a victory lap is that there's no longer anything at stake in it. I will always prefer the records where you can feel that tension, that vitality, from when the race was still on.[/quote]

I think that makes a lot of sense. Collapse Into Now came out when I was still getting to know some of the older stuff. I mean... when I bought Accelerate, I had a handful of the older albums and absolutely loved them, but I still had never heard Reckoning. I can see that making for a different experience when hearing an album like Collapse Into Now, and maybe that's why there was no sense of disappointment when I first heard it. I didn't follow the band for years and hear their evolution with each album that came out; I basically knew Everybody Hurts and Man on the Moon, so I bought Automatic for the People, fell in love with it, and gradually started buying used copies of their albums whenever I could find one. In my experience, there really was no evolution or development. It was just a band with a whole bunch of albums and songs that I really, really liked.

[stip]

Collapse definitley elevated itself when I came to see it as the final statement.

As is discoverer and maroon Brando are okay and I don't really like all the best or that someone is you. So that's a quarter of the album I could do without, which I'd also only say about maybe up and around the sun