Crucify the Insincere: A Smashing Pumpkins Thread

[matt reeder]

Did anyone ever make a single or double disc "best of" mix out of all that reissue material? I'd love a redux version of that stuff.

Unlike almost any other band I find it difficult to cross streams with TSP. Like, I can't listen to a song from Adore and then a song from Gish and then a song from Machina...otherwise I would have done it.

I did make a mix of the best of the MCIS/TAFH stuff that I quite like, though. I'm not going to upload it here but I could be convinced to share it elsewhere.

Eye should have been on Adore.

It's technically the same era, given they started working on Adore immediately after they finished touring MCIS. There are some overlaps, and these periods are often the most interesting things they've done.

Has anybody here ever listened to the Gravity demos?

[tragabigzanda]

[matt reeder]

Did anyone ever make a single or double disc "best of" mix out of all that reissue material? I'd love a redux version of that stuff.

Unlike almost any other band I find it difficult to cross streams with TSP. Like, I can't listen to a song from Adore and then a song from Gish and then a song from Machina...otherwise I would have done it.

I did make a mix of the best of the MCIS/TAFH stuff that I quite like, though. I'm not going to upload it here but I could be convinced to share it elsewhere.

Eye should have been on Adore.

It's technically the same era, given they started working on Adore immediately after they finished touring MCIS. There are some overlaps, and these periods are often the most interesting things they've done.

Has anybody here ever listened to the Gravity demos?

Never even heard of these, just read about them, am immediately interested. Will check some stuff out tonight.

Did you read that Tape Op article I read? I think you especially would like it.

I did, and found it very interesting.

The Gravity Demos occupy a space between Siamese Dream and MCIS, having been recorded between legs of the Siamese Dream tour in early 1994. The only song with vocals is "Bullet With Butterfly Wings" (not a very good take, either) and the rest are instrumental. There are two sets - the one that Billy leaked sometime around 2000 and the one that he put on the TAFH box set, which contains a bunch of other stuff that isn't on the tape he leaked. But there's a lot of really, really good stuff.

I love the demo tapes that leaked. The great demo tapes, things that should be tracked down:

Reel Time Demos (sometime in 1989 - two discs of great early SP)
Quiet and Other Songs (Fall 1992, tracks for Siamese Dream)
Mashed Potatoes (A box set of live tracks and demos that Billy himself curated for family and friends, 1988-1993)
Gravity Demos (see above)
Adore Demos II (a lot of acoustic songs from sometime in 1997-1998)
Machina Acoustic Demos (acoustic demos from winter 1998-1999)
Friends and Enemies of Modern Music (a tape from very early in the Machina era, possibly as early as Spring 1999)

Overall there's still a ton of stuff that's been leaked / surfaced that didn't make the reissues, and a person could easily compile them into a large compilation, as I attempted to do once.

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Quiet and Other Songs (Fall 1992, tracks for Siamese Dream)

Is there a version of this that doesn't sound completely fucktarded? (ie, like someone twiddling a balance knob back and forth with a generous helping of NR added.)

[matt reeder]

Quiet and Other Songs (Fall 1992, tracks for Siamese Dream)

Is there a version of this that doesn't sound completely fucktarded? (ie, like someone twiddling a balance knob back and forth with a generous helping of NR added.)

No. Well, maybe. I have the original leak. But it has channel dropouts and in general it needs a full remaster.

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Quiet and Other Songs (Fall 1992, tracks for Siamese Dream)

Is there a version of this that doesn't sound completely fucktarded? (ie, like someone twiddling a balance knob back and forth with a generous helping of NR added.)

No. Well, maybe. I have the original leak. But it has channel dropouts and in general it needs a full remaster.

Not dropouts, but some kind of bizarre channel manipulation. I've never heard anything like it, and it's really awful. It needs a completely new tape transfer...remastering it won't fix it...unless that's what you meant.

It's too bad, because it rocks!

I was given a bunch of onstage SD footage and a remix of "Pug" by someone close to the band. I only duped them for one or two people, but I'm pretty sure they are circulating widely by now.

[matt reeder]

Quiet and Other Songs (Fall 1992, tracks for Siamese Dream)

Is there a version of this that doesn't sound completely fucktarded? (ie, like someone twiddling a balance knob back and forth with a generous helping of NR added.)

No. Well, maybe. I have the original leak. But it has channel dropouts and in general it needs a full remaster.

Not dropouts, but some kind of bizarre channel manipulation. I've never heard anything like it, and it's really awful. It needs a completely new tape transfer...remastering it won't fix it...unless that's what you meant.

It's too bad, because it rocks!

I was given a bunch of onstage SD footage and a remix of "Pug" by someone close to the band. I only duped them for one or two people, but I'm pretty sure they are circulating widely by now.

The original leak was made by somebody who literally went into (IIRC) the Library of Congress and clandestinely copied the tape. Or so they claimed. Don't quote me on that. We're never getting another transfer unless Billy decides to just release it himself (not entirely impossible).

Did you get this tape?

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Did you get this tape?

Yup. That's one of the things I surfaced.

[matt reeder]

"Thirty-Three" is one of the most achingly beautiful songs ever written.

That is all.

[PHATJ]

Finally had a chance to read the Tape Op article, it's excellent. Basically a broad overview of where he was at creatively and technologically during each step of his career -- his goals and inspirations with a given a record, his process throughout the making of a record, and the result. Lots of input from Butch Vig, Jimmy C, Flood, Alan Moulder, Tommy Lee, and more. Perhaps some interesting insights to the sound of the Zwan and re-formed Pumpkins stuff that was discussed here recently. Tape Op just threw it up online, so I thought I'd share:

http://tapeop.com/interviews/115/smashi ... o-history/

Sounds awesome. I hope I have a chance to check this out before I forget about it.

[PHATJ]

"Thirty-Three" is one of the most achingly beautiful songs ever written.

That is all.

It's always been a favorite of mine too. I love it. "In the Arms of Sleep" is beautiful too.

[chewm]

"Thirty-Three" is one of the most achingly beautiful songs ever written.

That is all.

It's always been a favorite of mine too. I love it. "In the Arms of Sleep" is beautiful too.

I fucking love the Bridge of that one

[matt reeder]

Listening to 1/08/1997 for the millionth time.

I post this here at least once every few months, but if you're a fan and you've never listened to this show, well, you're missing out on something immensely great: https://archive.org/details/tsp1997-01-08.rework.flac16

This show is so good it's on a shortlist for my all-time desert island album.

[AndySlash]

i've listened to that silverfuck countless times but i don't know if i've ever listened to the whole show. guess i'll have to do that. that closing run is incredible.

[tragabigzanda]

Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb

I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem

[Wendy Carlos's Twin]

Spinning this now, it sounds awesome. Were they touring with a live string section at the time, or are those backing tracks?

That's Dennis "Smile" Flemion, my friend.

[matt reeder]

i've listened to that silverfuck countless times but i don't know if i've ever listened to the whole show. guess i'll have to do that. that closing run is incredible.

Best live versions ever of:

Rhinoceros
Porcelina of the Vast Oceans
Bullet With Butterfly Wings
Muzzle
Thru the Eyes of Ruby
By Starlight
Siva
The Aeroplane Flies High
Silverfuck

That's why it's the best SP bootleg ever.

[matt reeder]

Another brilliant show from this tour is Cincinnati (1/19/1997). The recording I linked here runs fast, so I remastered it. I'll be glad to upload it in the future if people want.

Setlist:
1. Mellon Collie and the Infinite Sadness (over PA)
2. The Aeroplane Flies High
3. Jellybelly
4. Tonight, Tonight
5. Rhinoceros
6. Here Is No Why
7. Zero
8. Fuck You
9. Porcelina of the Vast Oceans > Rocket (partial)
10. 1979
11. Thirty-three
12. Bullet with Butterfly Wings
13. Muzzle
14. Disarm
15. Thru the Eyes of Ruby

encore 1:
16. Jumping Jack Flash [The Rolling Stones] (tease)
17. X.Y.U.

encore 2:
18. Drown > Hummer (tease)
19. (blues jam) > Tribute to Johnny (tease) > Mouths Of Babes (tease) > God (tease) > Tristessa (tease)
20. Cherub Rock

encore 3:
21. Silverfuck > Space Jam

It will melt your brain if you love the Pumpkins. My remastered recording is not the greatest thing ever, but it's nice and crunchy. The "Here Is No Why" solo is orgasmic.

[Iholdthepain]

I'm surprised to see Aeroplane so early in the set.

Have you heard the Dallas '96 recording? It was 20 years ago today, and it also has amazing versions of songs and the Aeroplane/Silverfuck jam. They were sure peaking during this time. Shame JC wasn't part of it for long, but Matt Walker was good I guess.

[matt reeder]

I'm surprised to see Aeroplane so early in the set.

Have you heard the Dallas '96 recording? It was 20 years ago today, and it also has amazing versions of songs and the Aeroplane/Silverfuck jam. They were sure peaking during this time. Shame JC wasn't part of it for long, but Matt Walker was good I guess.

That's a great show and one of the best AUD recordings of the MCIS tour. I've heard every show with a recording from 11/12/1996 through the end of the tour. I listen to bootlegs as much as if not more than studio albums for every band I love.