Red Mosquito

I think calling something “sophisticated” simply because it inspires disagreement and discussion is specious.

stip wrote:I'm genuinely surprised at some of the comments on the technical work in the movie, since that's been spoken of very positively in the reviews that I've read. But I just knows whats I likes, and don't have the vocabulary or knowledge to really unpack it. It looked good, but it wasn't like this was seeing Jurassic Park or Avatar or Matrix or Fellowship of the Ring where I felt like I was watching something groundbreaking in terms of the effects and visual design of the movies.

I've been thinking about this

I think Bada's comment about BP looking like a CW superhero show is very harsh (nothing looks as bad as a CW superhero show) but it does point to some of the choices they made in this movie, that are consistent with choices Marvel seems to mandate for all their movies, and why they stand in sharp contrast to a few scattered images here and there.

We've all seen that video about Marvel's color grading and how that makes the end product look that much flatter, but tbh I think the major culprits of Marvel's "flat", "drab" look are the cinematography and the production design. They tend to use colors that harmonize visually. Optically, there are colors that, when placed together, trick your mind into believing you are seeing a muted version of both. So if you put two colors like grey and red together, then your mind will make the red appear more grey and the grey more red. This happened to some extent during this movie, but there are a few brief moments with really beautiful vistas and color combination (I am thinking of that heaven-dimension-ghost place they visit a few times, and a few of the Wakanda wide shots, which made me go "whoa").

I think this speaks to the fact that Marvel seems to be entirely story-driven in their approach (to the detriment of the end product) and they don't use these cinematic resources to furtheir their themes or speak to the characters' inner lives. This seems to be much more of a Marvel thing than a Disney thing. When you look at previs cards or color palette cards for the animated movies like Aladdin or Lion King, they begin previs talks with a color palette that corresponds to the emotional transitions in the movie. But the Marvel movies don't seem to have that level of color transition. This contributes to that stagnant feeling throughout.

What I think is the worst part is the lazy, straightforward, "boxy" cinematography, which this film also fell victim to. This may have to do with hiring primarily TV directors, but I think it's probably mandated by the studio. When was the last time you saw characters in silhouette or in shadow in a Marvel movie? When have they been underlit or had rim lighting separating them from the background? The cinematography of these movies is flat and uninspiring. Like I said earlier, there are moments here that seem lit like TV commercials (those fights by the waterfall, holy hell). When you do color photography you calculate the value range and contrast of f-stops between the colors to maximize your exposure. Hard to make production design pop when it inherently uses colors that harmonize too easily together.

tl;dr most of Marvel movies suffer from bad/boring production design and cinematography. This movie does too but it is able to get away from it for a few shots.

I was going to post some comparison money shots of Black Panther and CW shows but Google no longer has the option to view image and get the url. I'm not sure life is worth living anymore.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I think calling something “sophisticated” simply because it inspires disagreement and discussion is specious.

of course. it is sophisticated because of the intentional dynamics within the film.

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:I'm genuinely surprised at some of the comments on the technical work in the movie, since that's been spoken of very positively in the reviews that I've read. But I just knows whats I likes, and don't have the vocabulary or knowledge to really unpack it. It looked good, but it wasn't like this was seeing Jurassic Park or Avatar or Matrix or Fellowship of the Ring where I felt like I was watching something groundbreaking in terms of the effects and visual design of the movies.

I've been thinking about this

I think Bada's comment about BP looking like a CW superhero show is very harsh (nothing looks as bad as a CW superhero show) but it does point to some of the choices they made in this movie, that are consistent with choices Marvel seems to mandate for all their movies, and why they stand in sharp contrast to a few scattered images here and there.

We've all seen that video about Marvel's color grading and how that makes the end product look that much flatter, but tbh I think the major culprits of Marvel's "flat", "drab" look are the cinematography and the production design. They tend to use colors that harmonize visually. Optically, there are colors that, when placed together, trick your mind into believing you are seeing a muted version of both. So if you put two colors like grey and red together, then your mind will make the red appear more grey and the grey more red. This happened to some extent during this movie, but there are a few brief moments with really beautiful vistas and color combination (I am thinking of that heaven-dimension-ghost place they visit a few times, and a few of the Wakanda wide shots, which made me go "whoa").

I think this speaks to the fact that Marvel seems to be entirely story-driven in their approach (to the detriment of the end product) and they don't use these cinematic resources to furtheir their themes or speak to the characters' inner lives. This seems to be much more of a Marvel thing than a Disney thing. When you look at previs cards or color palette cards for the animated movies like Aladdin or Lion King, they begin previs talks with a color palette that corresponds to the emotional transitions in the movie. But the Marvel movies don't seem to have that level of color transition. This contributes to that stagnant feeling throughout.

What I think is the worst part is the lazy, straightforward, "boxy" cinematography, which this film also fell victim to. This may have to do with hiring primarily TV directors, but I think it's probably mandated by the studio. When was the last time you saw characters in silhouette or in shadow in a Marvel movie? When have they been underlit or had rim lighting separating them from the background? The cinematography of these movies is flat and uninspiring. Like I said earlier, there are moments here that seem lit like TV commercials (those fights by the waterfall, holy hell). When you do color photography you calculate the value range and contrast of f-stops between the colors to maximize your exposure. Hard to make production design pop when it inherently uses colors that harmonize too easily together.

tl;dr most of Marvel movies suffer from bad/boring production design and cinematography. This movie does too but it is able to get away from it for a few shots.

interesting post - thank you

Even in the movie's one environment that flirts with being visually interesting, it just looks lifted from another movie:





Those sequences actually were the one element I thought was approaching some interesting thematic territory: T'Challa seeing his ancestral plane as an African Savannah populated by his ancestors, while Killmonger sees the ghetto apartment where his father died. It's an interesting contrast that helps establish the differing psychological motivations for the two men, as problematic as I still think that is. I also thought it was a nice touch that African art facades conceal guns in the apartment, which hammers home the ideas further. I sure wish it all added up to something insightful.

I don't even have to go deep into the visuals to dislike this movie. I just found the plot boring.

B.P. wants to get Klaw, B.P. fails.
K.M. shows up the next day with Klaw dead (way to go Marvel, way to just kill off one of the ONLY established villains you've ever had in any of your movies by a character you've not even yet introduced)
K.M. challenges B.P. for the thrown. Like everyone doesn't see whats coming next, of course B.P. will lose.
Of course Man-Ape, who has already challenged for the thrown will be the one to find B.P.
Of course B.P. will ask Man-Ape for his help to take Wakanda back. Of course Man-Ape says no, of course he shows up at just the right time during the final battle.

At least it wasn't joke filled like most of the Marvel movies have become, but this plot was very safe and by the numbers. And the "social commentary" felt like it was holding back to not totally alienate the non black marvel audience.


I also feel like this movie should have come out before Thor. This is the lead in movie to Infinity War, and it had no, lead in or build up for it.
They should have done B.P. first, then Thor, and written Thor as a lead in to Infinity War.

You don't think this movie was joke-filled? I definitely thought it was. Painfully so. Who the hell thought referencing the "WHAT ARE THOSE?!" meme was a good idea?

The cgi is already old guys. Those blurry fights, the plastic looking sets....Its going to be hard to see this one on 4k.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:You don't think this movie was joke-filled? I definitely thought it was. Painfully so. Who the hell thought referencing the "WHAT ARE THOSE?!" meme was a good idea?

There was a few "bad" jokes/lines, for sure. A few that may even go down as worse than Storms "Do you know whath appens to Toads" in X-1.
But the jokes didnt get beat to death in B.P. And I dont recall any over the top adult ones? Like Spider-man Homecomings "looking at porn" on the PC joke, Guardians "you should see this in a black light" reference, or Thors "this is his orgy ship" Maybe I just missed one in B.P. as I was so bored with the standard action movie recycled plot.

bada wrote:I was going to post some comparison money shots of Black Panther and CW shows but Google no longer has the option to view image and get the url. I'm not sure life is worth living anymore.

if you're on a mac, hold CONTROL + Click and then you can grab the URL

if you are on mobile it looks like it's game over now though

MadTIGERmaN wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:You don't think this movie was joke-filled? I definitely thought it was. Painfully so. Who the hell thought referencing the "WHAT ARE THOSE?!" meme was a good idea?

There was a few "bad" jokes/lines, for sure. A few that may even go down as worse than Storms "Do you know whath appens to Toads" in X-1.
But the jokes didnt get beat to death in B.P. And I dont recall any over the top adult ones? Like Spider-man Homecomings "looking at porn" on the PC joke, Guardians "you should see this in a black light" reference, or Thors "this is his orgy ship" Maybe I just missed one in B.P. as I was so bored with the standard action movie recycled plot.

Who cares if the jokes are "adult?"

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

MadTIGERmaN wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:You don't think this movie was joke-filled? I definitely thought it was. Painfully so. Who the hell thought referencing the "WHAT ARE THOSE?!" meme was a good idea?

There was a few "bad" jokes/lines, for sure. A few that may even go down as worse than Storms "Do you know whath appens to Toads" in X-1.
But the jokes didnt get beat to death in B.P. And I dont recall any over the top adult ones? Like Spider-man Homecomings "looking at porn" on the PC joke, Guardians "you should see this in a black light" reference, or Thors "this is his orgy ship" Maybe I just missed one in B.P. as I was so bored with the standard action movie recycled plot.

Who cares if the jokes are "adult?"

When youre making super hero movies that are PG-13 but parents are bringing their 10 year olds. Those parents care. For the first what, 10+ movies? it was some violence, maybe a curse word or too, but there wasn't much "adult" themes going on. The Guardians joke went over most kids heads, but the "porn" and "orgy" ones... Leave that shit to Deadpool. The jokes weren't even funny, and they just left parents squirming in their seats hoping their kid doesn't say "mom wants an orgy?" Which I know of at least one who did (the kid sitting 2 over from me). They could have just reworded it and said its his... "party, cough cough, ship" and all us Adults would have got it. Same thing with the porn joke. "young man are you looking at what I think youre looking at!" "aaahh yes?" and wed all get it. Hell its almost funnier that way.

Sounds like you have some hangups bro

i haven't seen the film, because i have no personal life, but i don't think that the word 'orgy' is appropriate for ages 13 and up

probably more like 16 and up

or 96583 and up

lol I had already had sex before I was 16. 13-year-olds know what orgies are.

just not a thing to put in a youth-marketed movie

again, haven't seen the movie, because i am amish, but having difficulty where the word would even fit in this type of film? everyone knows that african stereotypes are strictly monogamous

Can I just say, ...

Kilmonger standing over the burning herb, then the cut to him walking to the thrown upside down and the camera turns as he walks ....

That was fucking awesome.

My kids had a LOT of questions about this movie.

Why did no one have names? Heh, my kids are very white.
Why did that guy have a thing in his mouth?
Why was Black Panther helping Kilmonger at the end?
What were all those bumps on Kilmonger?

Also, my 5 year old daughter legit cried when Kilmonger threw T'Challa off the waterful. I know, we all know he's in Infinity War, but she thought he was dead, and she was fucking crushed.

96583UP wrote:just not a thing to put in a youth-marketed movie

again, haven't seen the movie, because i am amish, but having difficulty where the word would even fit in this type of film? everyone knows that african stereotypes are strictly monogamous

I can’t tell if you’re being serious about this point or not. Anyway, the US has dumb hangups about sex and I have no sympathy for sheltering parents. That is all.