Red Mosquito

McParadigm wrote:

Superblood Wolfmoon wrote:If you want to be the guinea pig who goes to Applebee’s, go for it. I’m gonna chill until there’s a better understanding of how safe everything is.

Doesn’t mean I have to go there until I feel comfortable.

And if you work at Applebee’s but don’t feel safe returning to work at this time, eat shit.

If you don't want to go back to your job, that's fine, someone else is willing to do it. Nobody has the right to "feel safe." Safety is an illusion. Life is inherently dangerous. We all need to manage risk in a way that works for us, but if you're so crippled by fear that your plan is to permanently shelter in place, professional counseling (via video conference, natch) may be helpful.

Look McP, in a perfect world we’d all agree that keeping things closed and paying everyone affected is the right thing to do. But I think we both know that’s never going to happen, and that forcing people to comply won’t either.

Part of the freedom we have in this country is the freedom to be a fucking moron. I feel for the plight of the Applebee’s worker, but it’s Applebee’s responsibility to have a safe environment for their employees and customers. Nobody is forced to eat or work there if they’re not comfortable.

The fact that people so quickly run to the "what, do you want us to stay in our rooms forever?!!?" strawman makes this argument kind of pointless. No one is saying you don't leave your bedroom until there's a vaccine, unless you want to hunt down some random people on Twitter.

digster wrote:The fact that people so quickly run to the "what, do you want us to stay in our rooms forever?!!?" strawman makes this argument kind of pointless. No one is saying you don't leave your bedroom until there's a vaccine, unless you want to hunt down some randoms people on Twitter saying that that proves your case.

The other is "if you want to live in fear"

Being concerned for the well being of my local community and my loved ones, is not living in fear. Wanting to open up cautiously and safely, is not living in fear.

Superblood Wolfmoon wrote:Look McP, in a perfect world we’d all agree that keeping things closed and paying everyone affected is the right thing to do. But I think we both know that’s never going to happen, and that forcing people to comply won’t either.

The entire reopen design is based on the premise of forcing some people to comply with other people’s ambitions.

Part of the freedom we have in this country is the freedom to be a fucking moron

The scenario you're describing is one in which only middle class professionals have the freedom to refuse that stupidity.

For all the years of “liberal elites don’t get the common man,“ I’m honestly astounded by the inherent class divide of risk and consequence being promoted by this talk.

I feel for the plight of the Applebee’s worker, but it’s Applebee’s responsibility to have a safe environment

(blinks; blinks more; decides it’s not worth it)

Nobody is forced to eat or work there if they’re not comfortable.

You couldn’t more directly be forcing people to work there. Especially for folks in rural areas, where food banks and other supports are often a pipe dream.

also, your freedom to be a moron could very well impact my freedom, or someone else freedom, to not be infected with a deadly disease. Your freedoms are not absolute. Never were.

Guess what? After two decades of flag-waving, anti-intellectualism morons tearing down this country, I don't give a fuck about the "common man" anymore. Fuck 'em, they won. I'll take care of myself, my friends, and my family and hope they'll do the same. I'm powerless to do anything else and am absolutely exhausted from watching the fight to get them to do otherwise.

macphisto wrote:

McParadigm wrote:

Superblood Wolfmoon wrote:If you want to be the guinea pig who goes to Applebee’s, go for it. I’m gonna chill until there’s a better understanding of how safe everything is.

Doesn’t mean I have to go there until I feel comfortable.

And if you work at Applebee’s but don’t feel safe returning to work at this time, eat shit.

If you don't want to go back to your job, that's fine, someone else is willing to do it.

There certainly are plenty of other desperate people you can use up and toss away instead.

Nobody has the right to "feel safe." Safety is an illusion.

It’s in the universal declaration of human rights? And probably the entire premise of our women’s and children’s shelter services? And also wtf?

“I’m just tired of fighting the stupid, let them have their dumb victory,” is a game we’ve been playing for years, and it amazes me that we still haven’t come to terms with fact that the lesson you are giving bad faith players with that decision is “Pull the same shit next time, it really works.“

Certainly you realize that everyone's level of how safe they feel in any given situation is very subjective and hard to legislate.

Strat wrote:also, your freedom to be a moron could very well impact my freedom, or someone else freedom, to not be infected with a deadly disease. Your freedoms are not absolute. Never were.

Their freedoms are always more important than ours. After all their right to bear arms is more important than our right to not get shot.

McParadigm wrote:“I’m just tired of fighting the stupid, let them have their dumb victory,” is a game we’ve been playing for years, and it amazes me that we still haven’t come to terms with fact that the lesson you are giving bad faith players with that decision is “Pull the same shit next time, it really works.“

That ship has long since sailed my friend. Somewhere between "Freedom Fries" and birtherism.

I will add that I do admire the level of empathy some of you have for your fellow man. I was once that way too. I believed every mind could be spoken to rationally, armed with facts, and that they would listen, apply critical thinking, and perhaps decide to see things differently. But when I see that an expected 1000 people are going to gather in the tiny downtown area of my city on Saturday to "OPEN UP OREGON DERP" and proudly proclaiming that "no social distancing measures will be implemented," and that the local police won't enforce any of the governor's orders on gatherings, aside from using my own noodle to stay the fuck away from that shitshow, there's really nothing I can do about it.

It takes conscious effort to not relish the death of idiots making the rest of us suffer, but I try really hard.

I don't think it's the idiots they're empathizing with

Please, someone tell me how long I have to stay sheltered and how much hardship I and everyone around me will have to endure to eradicate this virus. I will gladly do it. Oh, you cant? The virus won? Oh well damn. Can we still at least pretend we aren't going to roll death for the next year or so. I want to at least FEEL better. Can someone please just lie to me and say there is a plan?

theplatypus wrote:I don't think it's the idiots they're empathizing with

I do feel empathy for the want to regain some normalcy, and for the way that fear and anxiety can distort perception in the moment of an event. But I also absolutely believe that anyone who is advocating for forcing a person to return to work under threat of kicking them off unemployment, at this time, has abandoned their humanity. No matter how they talk themselves into it.

Donald wrote:https://www.vice.com/amp/en_us/article/ ... ssion=true

This is the content I’m here for

verb_to_trust wrote:Please, someone tell me how long I have to stay sheltered and how much hardship I and everyone around me will have to endure to eradicate this virus. I will gladly do it. Oh, you cant? The virus won? Oh well damn. Can we still at least pretend we aren't going to roll death for the next year or so. I want to at least FEEL better. Can someone please just lie to me and say there is a plan?

You seem to be going from one extreme to the other, which is how this conversation has turned throughout the world.

And im asking honestly, im sure its different in chicago, but is it really stay inside locked down or go rush your neighborhood bars and applebees? My county, granted its small, but was a hot spot early on in the country, has since relaxed the restrictions. Restaurants were doing curbside pickup and finding new ways to serve their clients. Nothing ever totally shut down. We could always go grocery shopping, go outside and exercise, and countless other "normal" activities.

I know I dont have kids, and im lucky that my work was deemed essential (and also terrifying) but im legit curious why its now become all or nothing? Many gudielines in place throughout the country are similar to where I live.