Re: The 47th POTUS - Donald J. Trump

[epilogue]

Man, buses are like never on time

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Bi_3]

It sounds like a terrific solution to corrupt government.

I think if you were an honest person, you could admit that even your most hated political enemies - being real life human beings and not demons - are working towards solutions to problems. I mean, even Hitler had a solution! If you were not drowning in irony poison - and not willfully trying to misunderstand trag's points to sound like a "decent person" - you could just say you find the right's solutions to be terrible. Take me for instance: I find the DEI crowd's solution to racial or gender inequality to be utterly abhorrent and counter productive, but I can still admit that they have some sort of solution and are working towards implementing it, backwards as it is.

Wow

We'll, there you go, Trag. Here is your "realistic" hero.

Yes, it's realistic to assume even your political enemies are working towards solutions (fucked as they are) to problems, not cartoon villains bent on serving evil like Skeletor. I don't think this is controversial.

It isn't controversial. But in this case, it also isn't accurate. There are no solutions. There are fabricated problems and there are... shrugs.

This administration wants to dissolve the government. There can be no solutions.

This is an interesting statement and seems at odds with what the electorate voted for. Why do you think these are ‘fabricated problems’?

[epilogue]

The point I was trying to make yesterday, and that I believe Burt is circling around in his Burtish way, is that spending the next four years decrying a Republican problem/solution set that feels divorced from one’s own perception of issues is a guaranteed way to keep losing; and that the evolved strategy would be to embrace the validity of the problems that have gained traction with the influx of GOP voters — particularly through partnership with evangelical organizations — and to offer alternative solutions, rather than an entirely different set of problems that has lost votes for the Dems. And the timing is nigh, because:

Three candidates have emerged as top contenders to lead the Democratic National Committee: Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party chair Ken Martin, Wisconsin Democratic Party chair Ben Wikler and former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley.

I mean, all anyone has is their own perception of issues. That's why we can't even fucking agree on the things we're seeing with our own eyes anymore. But setting that aside, to your larger (and not unfair) point, yes. I agree. But that only works when the problems are valid (one thing the Right excels at is diminishing valid problems and exacerbating fraudulent or manufactured problems) AND if/when it applies to both sides.

This administration, specifically, doesn't seem interested in solutions to valid problems, seemingly, because the only valid problem they can identify is the government itself. That, and I guess, loyalty? And I'm sorry but stoking anger, slinging misinformation, demanding loyalty pledges, and dismantling because you have no desire to govern, don't seem like valid "solutions" that are worth embracing or even taking seriously.

At some point THEY have to make concessions and compromises, too. I'm pretty fucking sick of the (for some reason popular belief) that Republicans can and should do whatever they want, break whatever they want, say whatever they want and it's incumbent on Dems to be polite and concede and bend over.

[VinylGuy]

What the fuck is goin on?

Yeah well maybe travelling to the states won’t happen this year

Yeez what a mess

Just take a bus

yeah, airplanes were a problem anyway!!

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE

[Higgs]

I find it a sad indictment of our times to listen to Trump's press conference post that plane/helicopter crash as I compared it to Reagan's words to the nation after the Challenger Space Shuttle disaster.

This guy is the worst leader I've ever seen.

Shit must be brutally bad over in the US if you feel that he's the guy you need right now.

[Farmer John]

Patiently waiting for Donny to finish his golf game so he can let us know the exact details of his tariff plan.

[epilogue]

The point I was trying to make yesterday, and that I believe Burt is circling around in his Burtish way, is that spending the next four years decrying a Republican problem/solution set that feels divorced from one’s own perception of issues is a guaranteed way to keep losing; and that the evolved strategy would be to embrace the validity of the problems that have gained traction with the influx of GOP voters — particularly through partnership with evangelical organizations — and to offer alternative solutions, rather than an entirely different set of problems that has lost votes for the Dems. And the timing is nigh, because:

Three candidates have emerged as top contenders to lead the Democratic National Committee: Minnesota Democratic-Farmer-Labor Party chair Ken Martin, Wisconsin Democratic Party chair Ben Wikler and former Maryland Gov. Martin O’Malley.

I mean, all anyone has is their own perception of issues. That's why we can't even fucking agree on the things we're seeing with our own eyes anymore. But setting that aside, to your larger (and not unfair) point, yes. I agree. But that only works when the problems are valid. And one thing the Right excels at is diminishing valid problems and exacerbating fraudulent or manufactured problems. AND if/when it applies to both sides.

This administration, specifically, doesn't seem interested in solutions to valid problems, seemingly, because the only valid problem they can identify is the government itself. That, and I guess, loyalty? And I'm sorry but stoking anger, slinging misinformation, demanding loyalty pledges, and dismantling because you have no desire to govern, don't seem like valid "solutions" that are worth embracing or even taking seriously.

At some point THEY have to make concessions and compromises, too. I'm pretty fucking sick of the (for some reason popular belief) that Republicans can and should do whatever they want, break whatever they want, say whatever they want and it's incumbent on Dems to be polite and concede and bend over.

I don’t think a word of this is unreasonable, but again, it seems oriented towards the solution. I think you’ve got the bold part backwards: A majority of Americans seem to agree that the Federal government is not working for the benefit of their individual households;
Trump’s solution is to dismantle the apparatus, which appeals to a lot of voters from divergent backgrounds (and hurray for Burt!).

Conversely, the left has spent the last 20 years identifying the problem (roughly) as “Capitalism has never worked for minority groups and it’s up to the Federal government to fix that.” But that view is now fundamentally at odds with prevailing sentiment.

So what’s the Democratic mission to embrace the problem set that a majority of voters are aligned on, and what’s the strategy to offer an alternative solution set that doesn’t cause drift from this new mission?

I'm not sure that a majority actually does feel that way (there is a lot of absent nuance), but let's just say they do. I happen to think they're right. Many aspects of the government are broken. Bureaucracy is out of control.

Dismantling the apparatus entirely may appeal to voters now but the fully realized end result will be the dissolution of things like Social Security and Medicare, things that will harm those voters.

How does a sweeping spending freeze help Americans? In fact, it doesn't and we now know it's super unpopular. The backlash was sweeping and impressive.

Honestly, with the current media ecosystem so weighed against Democrats, and the further fracturing of a shared culture (news/entertainment/social media) I wonder if the solution isn't for Dems to get real fucking mean. And to flood the zone. Never shut up. Be on all the things: tv, pods, TikTok, and get nasty. But, to our earlier conversation, I'm not an elected Democrat nor a member of the official party or the DNC. What I would do and what they would/should do are (and should be) different.

[epilogue]

I find it a sad indictment of our times to listen to Trump's press conference post that plane/helicopter crash as I compared it to Reagan's words to the nation after the Challenger Space Shuttle disaster.

This guy is the worst leader I've ever seen.

Shit must be brutally bad over in the US if you feel that he's the guy you need right now.

Unfortunately, it's way more of a "not them" than it is a "yes him" overall in this country right now. The Right's media ecosystem and "flood the zone with shit" strategy has worked. People genuinely believe these two parties are the same. And they didn't like how expensive bacon was under the last geriatric guy, so why not let this other geriatric-er guy have a shot! Yes, he's old but he sure tells it like it is! Not just anyone can have their name on a building, you know.

[BurtReynolds]

I don't know what planet you have to live on to honestly believe that Trump's cognitive decline, if it is even in decline, is anywhere remotely comparable to Biden's near vegetative senility.

Again, you just like one and hate the other, and all your beliefs flow from that, regardless of reality.

[BurtReynolds]

It's ok. You can just hate Trump while recognizing the reality that his age hasn't greatly affected him yet, especially compared to Biden.

[epilogue]

I don't know what planet you have to live on to honestly believe that Trump's cognitive decline, if it is even in decline, is anywhere remotely comparable to Biden's near vegetative senility.

Again, you just like one and hate the other, and all your beliefs flow from that, regardless of reality.

Or maybe you just don't like me and so you get trigger by my posts. Because I didn't say any of that. If you want to engage, do it in good faith instead putting words in someone's mouth.

[epilogue]

It's ok. You can just hate Trump while recognizing the reality that his age hasn't greatly affected him yet, especially compared to Biden.

I never once said otherwise.

[BurtReynolds]

Ok, maybe I misunderstood you. what did you mean by "geriatric-er guy?"

[epilogue]

Just that Donald Trump was older Jan 20th 2025 than Biden was when he was sworn in on Jan 20 2021. That's all.

Even before the clear and obvious decline in Biden, a lot of people (Dems included, to be sure, but especially those on the Right) talked about how old Biden was, that his age was a liability. Again, this is BEFORE the obvious decline that is frankly undeniable (and I agree you'd have to be living in a different universe to deny it).

Many (certainly not all) of those same people were pretty silent about Trump's age, even though he was older. This is another example of those manufactured problems we were talking about before.

[Bi_3]

Still really excited to learn how the issues Trump ran on are ‘fabricated problems’. I’m confident a clear and reasonable answer will be coming soon!

[Self]

I come at this stuff as a former liberal -- my wife and I were democratic county precinct reps when we first moved to MT! -- who's watched their policies obliterate cities I care about (my hometown, Boston, Portland).

It goes against my better judgement posting in this forum, but Boston has been obliterated? Compared to the quality of life in the reddest/poorest states? Educate me.

[dimejinky99]

This conversation is even dumber than me and dime's petty sniping.

Oh I think we all know you’re the dumb one in this transaction. Many people told me. It’s obvious. You’re treating everyone very badly.

[tragabigzanda]

FUCK ICE