Red Mosquito

B wrote:This thread is going a long way toward making this movie less exciting for me. You guys are good at killing joy.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Fundamentally, how is it a bad thing?

This seems fairly self-evident to me? Time spent removing yourself from reality is time spent stagnating, distancing yourself from your emotion, intelligence, and ideology. It is, essentially, wasted time.

II don't see how removing yourself from reality is stagnant or distancing yourself from your emotions, intelligence and ideology. Rather, it can at it's very best, help you better engage with your emotions, broaden your imagination and change/expand/enforce your ideology.

B wrote:This thread is going a long way toward making this movie less exciting for me. You guys are good at killing joy.

YAY MOAR LAZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS! PWEW!!!! PWEW!!!! BOOM BOOM BOOM!

If all one does is escape from themselves and the world around them, then I can see how that is dangerous. But we're talking about stepping away for 2 hours.

Escapism is neither fundamentally good or bad. It can be either.

durdencommatyler wrote:

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:Fundamentally, how is it a bad thing?

This seems fairly self-evident to me? Time spent removing yourself from reality is time spent stagnating, distancing yourself from your emotion, intelligence, and ideology. It is, essentially, wasted time.

II don't see how removing yourself from reality is stagnant or distancing yourself from your emotions, intelligence and ideology. Rather, it can at it's very best, help you better engage with your emotions, broaden your imagination and change/expand/enforce your ideology.

I think we might be misunderstanding what each other mean by "reality" and saying the same thing. Anything that helps you engage, grow, think, feel is not removing you from reality in the way I mean. For clarification, one of my favorite quotes in the world:

"I don't think you go to a play to forget, or to a movie to be distracted. I think life generally is a distraction and that going to a movie is a way to get back, not go away."
-Tom Noonan

No, I get what you're saying. I just disagree. With you and Mr. Noonan.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Mr. Noonan's quote, and by extension your position here, is not just overly precious, but even pretentious, boarding on (to use your term) ignorant.

Well, that's not fair, actually. I agree with Mr. Noonan that one CAN use art that way. And I actually tend to prefer that form of consumption myself. But his quote seems just fine excluding other possible ways of consuming and appreciating entertainment. And maybe it's just the way I'm reading it right now, but it's offense to imply that there's only one way to enjoy something and that anyone who enjoys that thing differently is somehow less than.

durdencommatyler wrote:

B wrote:This thread is going a long way toward making this movie less exciting for me. You guys are good at killing joy.

YAY MOAR LAZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS! PWEW!!!! PWEW!!!! BOOM BOOM BOOM!

I'm perfectly content to revisit the Vader v Smaug debate

Let's list all the things vader actually accomplishes in the original trilogy that does not include:

A: murdering his employees
B: throwing distracted old men off of balconies

stip wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

B wrote:This thread is going a long way toward making this movie less exciting for me. You guys are good at killing joy.

YAY MOAR LAZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERS! PWEW!!!! PWEW!!!! BOOM BOOM BOOM!

I'm perfectly content to revisit the Vader v Smaug debate

Don't make me turn on you and side with Jordan because I'll fucking do it!

durdencommatyler wrote:No, I get what you're saying. I just disagree. With you and Mr. Noonan.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Mr. Noonan's quote, and by extension your position here, is not just overly precious, but even pretentious, boarding on (to use your term) ignorant.

Well, that's not fair, actually. I agree with Mr. Noonan that one CAN use art that way. And I actually tend to prefer that form of consumption myself. But his quote seems just fine excluding other possible ways of consuming and appreciating entertainment. And maybe it's just the way I'm reading it right now, but it's offense to imply that there's only one way to enjoy something and that anyone who enjoys that thing differently is somehow less than.

Anyone who knows anything about the way I view film should know that I find the "mindless entertainment" (escapism) approach to viewing movies fundamentally corrosive and, frankly, arrogantly wrong, since that is largely not how they are made. I believe art is more than that - more valuable, more important, more meaningful, more - so, yes, I am going to reject that as a valid way of appreciating film. I get that you disagree. That's fine. But I am not going to pretend I think that's an acceptable way of approaching movies, or any other art-form. I think it's completely backwards and retarding.

tragabigzanda wrote:Glad to see everyone's fired up on this. I believe it's good to be super critical of creativity, and the recycling of past works to make a buck can easily become a shameful act...

Joey: I'm a potsmoker; I've got nothing against potsmokers. But this man is a fucking idiot:

I'm just saying, who cares if he's an idiot? Who cares if he's excited? It should have no baring on one's own expectations. And while I have nothing wrong with criticizing Kevin Smith's work or even personality, my only beef, from the start, was criticizing and beating up on him just because he's fucking happy about a thing. That's gross to me.

Faster, more intense.

oh is kevin smith directing a star war?

lennytheweedwhacker wrote:oh is kevin smith directing a star war?

For the record, I don't share trag's feelings about Smith or people in his position.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:For the record, I don't share trag's feelings about Smith or people in his position.

The monks of Mount RM have duly noted this.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:No, I get what you're saying. I just disagree. With you and Mr. Noonan.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Mr. Noonan's quote, and by extension your position here, is not just overly precious, but even pretentious, boarding on (to use your term) ignorant.

Well, that's not fair, actually. I agree with Mr. Noonan that one CAN use art that way. And I actually tend to prefer that form of consumption myself. But his quote seems just fine excluding other possible ways of consuming and appreciating entertainment. And maybe it's just the way I'm reading it right now, but it's offense to imply that there's only one way to enjoy something and that anyone who enjoys that thing differently is somehow less than.

Anyone who knows anything about the way I view film should know that I find the "mindless entertainment" (escapism) approach to viewing movies fundamentally corrosive and, frankly, arrogantly wrong, since that is largely not how they are made. I believe art is more than that - more valuable, more important, more meaningful, more - so, yes, I am going to reject that as a valid way of appreciating film. I get that you disagree. That's fine. But I am not going to pretend I think that's an acceptable way of approaching movies, or any other art-form. I think it's completely backwards and retarding.

First of all, it is actually largely how they are made. I'm so happy that you still believe differently. And I hurt for the day it's proven to you that you're wrong. I'm really not looking forward to that. I hope it never happens, actually. We need more people who believe as purely, as innocently as you do.

Secondly, I love your conviction, always have. But I've never seen you more arrogantly wrong than in this argument. You can ignore and dismiss how others consume art all day long but insulting them for doing so isn't helpful. It's ignorant. It's elitist. And I think that kind of thinking is way more corrosive, personally.

Finally, you're assuming that film -- all film -- is some sort of elevated or respectable art form. There are plenty of arguments against that kind of thinking. But either way, please feel free to eat it up with whatever dressing you like. Just know that it doesn't make you better than anyone and assigning condemning language to those that consume differently, doesn't make you right or noble.