Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sat July 15, 2017 9:11 pm
Red Mosquito
The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Page 264 of 1347
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sat July 15, 2017 9:51 pm
Beautiful.Bi_3 wrote:
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sat July 15, 2017 9:53 pm
Ty Cobb
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sat July 15, 2017 11:04 pm
Interesting from The Intercept:
"In a bizarre twist, at the same time that Fusion GPS was paying Steele to investigate possible collusion between Trump and the Russian government, the firm was accused in a complaint filed with the Department of Justice last July of also working with Veselnitskaya to try to have U.S. sanctions on Russian officials lifted."
They also
One might wonder... was there some kind of "set up Trump and we will help get the adoption sanctions lifted" thing going on with her? What are the odds that the same group paid to dig up dirt on him happens to be working with her?
"In a bizarre twist, at the same time that Fusion GPS was paying Steele to investigate possible collusion between Trump and the Russian government, the firm was accused in a complaint filed with the Department of Justice last July of also working with Veselnitskaya to try to have U.S. sanctions on Russian officials lifted."
They also
One might wonder... was there some kind of "set up Trump and we will help get the adoption sanctions lifted" thing going on with her? What are the odds that the same group paid to dig up dirt on him happens to be working with her?
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 2:12 am
that email to Don Jr. sure reads like a set-up
you gotta figure that people who do this sort of dark-world government spy-thing for a living probably don't normally spell these types of offers out so explicitly in writing
and then Donald 'amateur hour' Jr. actually responded in writing; which is remarkable
next step for an invetigator is probably to find out what the quid-pro-quo was?
e.g. we give you emails; you drop sanctions; and let's launder money in real estate together, and we all emerge as winners
and if you don't...
we release the pee pee tape
you gotta figure that people who do this sort of dark-world government spy-thing for a living probably don't normally spell these types of offers out so explicitly in writing
and then Donald 'amateur hour' Jr. actually responded in writing; which is remarkable
next step for an invetigator is probably to find out what the quid-pro-quo was?
e.g. we give you emails; you drop sanctions; and let's launder money in real estate together, and we all emerge as winners
and if you don't...
we release the pee pee tape
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 2:59 pm
Also, didn't Clinton issue pardons after his Impeachment? Are we sure this doesn't just mean that a President can't pardon anyone who has been Impeached?Simple Torture wrote:FWIW, Article 2 Section 2 of the Constitution has:durdencommatyler wrote: The darkest part of the whole thing, to me, is the power of pardon. It's a necessary tool, I understand that. But it sucks in this particular case. There's a very real chance that Trump pardons anyone involved, especially anyone in his family. It's possible that Trump can pardon himself. The SCOTUS would have to weigh in on that, I think. But it's possible. Even if he can't, we could see the same thing we saw with Ford and Nixon. Pence would most likely pardon Trump.
"...[the President] shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 2:59 pm
Jesus we are a cesspooldurdencommatyler wrote:Also, didn't Clinton issue pardons after his Impeachment? Are we sure this doesn't just mean that a President can't pardon anyone who has been Impeached?Simple Torture wrote:FWIW, Article 2 Section 2 of the Constitution has:durdencommatyler wrote: The darkest part of the whole thing, to me, is the power of pardon. It's a necessary tool, I understand that. But it sucks in this particular case. There's a very real chance that Trump pardons anyone involved, especially anyone in his family. It's possible that Trump can pardon himself. The SCOTUS would have to weigh in on that, I think. But it's possible. Even if he can't, we could see the same thing we saw with Ford and Nixon. Pence would most likely pardon Trump.
"...[the President] shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 3:24 pm
I think what that means is simply POTUS can't pardon impeachment.
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 3:25 pm
But since Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes he hadn't yet been charged with, can Trump, while in office, pardon himself from criminal prosecution that might come after he's out of office?
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 3:26 pm
The way I read that is that he can't pardon anyone who's being impeached. Remember that it's not just a president who can be impeached, any federal official can be (if you look at this list, you'll see that judges--including Supreme Court justices--senators, cabinet members, and presidents have been impeached). So if, say, Pence or Tillerson were impeached, Trump can't pardon them for that. The wording is so vague, though, that I bet others would argue that the President can't pardon anyone involved in an impeachment proceeding (witnesses, for example) so as to prevent them from being intimidated or bribed with a pardon. That'd be up to the courts, though.durdencommatyler wrote:Also, didn't Clinton issue pardons after his Impeachment? Are we sure this doesn't just mean that a President can't pardon anyone who has been Impeached?Simple Torture wrote:FWIW, Article 2 Section 2 of the Constitution has:durdencommatyler wrote: The darkest part of the whole thing, to me, is the power of pardon. It's a necessary tool, I understand that. But it sucks in this particular case. There's a very real chance that Trump pardons anyone involved, especially anyone in his family. It's possible that Trump can pardon himself. The SCOTUS would have to weigh in on that, I think. But it's possible. Even if he can't, we could see the same thing we saw with Ford and Nixon. Pence would most likely pardon Trump.
"...[the President] shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 3:27 pm
I feel like someone (GH? I could be wrong) posted before about how Ford's pardon was very controversial, but people were basically just like, "Whatevs, let's move on."cutuphalfdead wrote:But since Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes he hadn't yet been charged with, can Trump, while in office, pardon himself from criminal prosecution that might come after he's out of office?
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 3:27 pm
Yeah GH was like "this should have been challenged to SCOTUS".Simple Torture wrote:I feel like someone (GH? I could be wrong) posted before about how Ford's pardon was very controversial, but people were basically just like, "Whatevs, let's move on."cutuphalfdead wrote:But since Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes he hadn't yet been charged with, can Trump, while in office, pardon himself from criminal prosecution that might come after he's out of office?
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 4:12 pm
Since my name was invoked here, I might as well issue a clarification on the cited point I made earlier. I think that in order to have standing to challenge Nixon's pardon in court, someone would have to charged Nixon with crimes. Ford's DOJ obviously wasn't going to do it, and who knows if Carter's DOJ would have. The larger point is that Ford's unusual pardon was not much of a legal move, but a political move, one that did not work out well for him.
As for the current topic at hand, Art. 1, ยง3, Clause 7 makes it very clear that impeachment is solely a political punishment, not a legal one:
As for the current topic at hand, Art. 1, ยง3, Clause 7 makes it very clear that impeachment is solely a political punishment, not a legal one:
It makes perfect sense that the President isn't allowed to pardon impeachments, as that could easily lead us down the road of corruption and authoritarianism. Issuing pardons for non-political crimes is a different category altogether, and in that case I think it's overall a good thing that the President has that power.Judgment in Cases of Impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United States: but the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 6:44 pm
when's the last time we hanged someone for treason?
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 7:01 pm
Alliser Thorne.Chris_H_2 wrote:when's the last time we hanged someone for treason?
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 7:03 pm
Simple Torture wrote:Alan Thicke.Chris_H_2 wrote:when's the last time we hanged someone for treason?
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Sun July 16, 2017 9:23 pm
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Mon July 17, 2017 12:04 am
durdencommatyler wrote:Also, didn't Clinton issue pardons after his Impeachment? Are we sure this doesn't just mean that a President can't pardon anyone who has been Impeached?Simple Torture wrote:FWIW, Article 2 Section 2 of the Constitution has:durdencommatyler wrote: The darkest part of the whole thing, to me, is the power of pardon. It's a necessary tool, I understand that. But it sucks in this particular case. There's a very real chance that Trump pardons anyone involved, especially anyone in his family. It's possible that Trump can pardon himself. The SCOTUS would have to weigh in on that, I think. But it's possible. Even if he can't, we could see the same thing we saw with Ford and Nixon. Pence would most likely pardon Trump.
"...[the President] shall have Power to Grant Reprieves and Pardons for Offences against the United States, except in Cases of Impeachment."
Not directly related to this quote but im quoting you here because i want to just say this one thing in regards to your comment:
Its been 6 months people and this story gets significantly bigger by the month. 6 months. Shit is going to come out.If that changes it will be because things have happened that are not currently on our radar screen.
Yes i am fully aware that Trump may be president for his entire 4 year term....but.....but....
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Mon July 17, 2017 7:10 pm
Yep.cutuphalfdead wrote:I think what that means is simply POTUS can't pardon impeachment.
Re: The 45th POTUS - Donald J. Trump
Posted: Mon July 17, 2017 7:11 pm
This is a big question being asked, actually. I think the Supreme Court will ultimately have to rule on it. But there are many experts that think yes he could.cutuphalfdead wrote:But since Ford pardoned Nixon for crimes he hadn't yet been charged with, can Trump, while in office, pardon himself from criminal prosecution that might come after he's out of office?