Red Mosquito

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, my opinion is that MYM's 'target' is perfectly clear, given its imagery, helped by the single artwork. Whether you think that target is hackneyed by now is subjective, and if you do, I get that. But I'm not sure Ed is forcing anything. If anything, he's doing something that's easy and recognisable at this point. This doesn't mean that it isn't sincere; it just might not be as fresh. Also, I'm not sure this band was always fighting against something at all. One 'stream' of their work was the fighting against; another stream was the introverted, agnostic searching that you find on every album. So this band had a 'fighting against injustice' angle, but they weren't Rage Against the Machine, who were all fight and no real inner searching. It makes perfect sense to me that in middle age (whether I like it or not), Ed would want to kick back with his family and write about the beauty of life. Even Yield gave us hints of this. And if the success of Into the Wild, wasn't a huge clue, well...

Into the Wild wasn't really about kicking back with your family, having fun and enjoying a settled life though. Pretty much the opposite actually.

Right. I didn't mean to imply that it was. I just meant that it was about observing nature, and quiet reflection on the world around; the criticisms of society took a back seat to the more beautiful 'tree-hugging' stuff about the natural world. I don't necessarily see reflections on domestic family life and love as a very different category.

I don't think ITW the quiet, tree-hugging, enjoying nature thing you're describing. It's not just let's go for a picnic what the sunset and go home. The character leaves everything, leaves his family and society (and criticisms of society definitely are a part of it), and goes out in the wilderness looking for something, looking for himself, looking for whatever he needs (or he feels he needs, same difference). There's a turmoil and quest, and an attempt to fulfill that quest that leads to dramatic consequences for him and his relatives. However naive/silly one may think this quest or the character is, there is nothing quiet about this. The "reflective" songs now seem to be more conservative/materialist, fearing the loss of something/someone, wishing them to come back etc. It's very different IMO.

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, my opinion is that MYM's 'target' is perfectly clear, given its imagery, helped by the single artwork. Whether you think that target is hackneyed by now is subjective, and if you do, I get that. But I'm not sure Ed is forcing anything. If anything, he's doing something that's easy and recognisable at this point. This doesn't mean that it isn't sincere; it just might not be as fresh. Also, I'm not sure this band was always fighting against something at all. One 'stream' of their work was the fighting against; another stream was the introverted, agnostic searching that you find on every album. So this band had a 'fighting against injustice' angle, but they weren't Rage Against the Machine, who were all fight and no real inner searching. It makes perfect sense to me that in middle age (whether I like it or not), Ed would want to kick back with his family and write about the beauty of life. Even Yield gave us hints of this. And if the success of Into the Wild, wasn't a huge clue, well...

Into the Wild wasn't really about kicking back with your family, having fun and enjoying a settled life though. Pretty much the opposite actually.

Right. I didn't mean to imply that it was. I just meant that it was about observing nature, and quiet reflection on the world around; the criticisms of society took a back seat to the more beautiful 'tree-hugging' stuff about the natural world. I don't necessarily see reflections on domestic family life and love as a very different category.

I don't think ITW the quiet, tree-hugging, enjoying nature thing you're describing. It's not just let's go for a picnic what the sunset and go home. The character leaves everything, leaves his family and society (and criticisms of society definitely are a part of it), and goes out in the wilderness looking for something, looking for himself, looking for whatever he needs (or he feels he needs, same difference). There's a turmoil and quest, and an attempt to fulfill that quest that leads to dramatic consequences for him and his relatives. However naive/silly one may think this quest or the character is, there is nothing quiet about this. The "reflective" songs now seem to be more conservative/materialist, fearing the loss of something/someone, wishing them to come back etc. It's very different IMO.

I didn't dismiss it as 'silly', and the quest is all you describe and more. But it's nothing more than what hippies have desired since forever -- to leave society and become one with nature as a lifestyle. So my 'tree-hugging' was a bit flippant, but it was just shorthand for an age-old desire that Into the Wild, music and film, expresses. That desire can also be fulfilled though, in a greater desire to spend more time with family and at home, in spite of the world's noise and demands. So in a way, Ed has moved from 'society' into a more indwardly-focussed schtick. Yes, he has a lot of money, but he's at peace. The difference between Ed and Chris McCandless is that Ed doesn't think being rich and being at peace are mutually exclusive concepts. But then really, which of us does? And should we be demonised for that?

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:

Heathen wrote:

harmless wrote:Well, my opinion is that MYM's 'target' is perfectly clear, given its imagery, helped by the single artwork. Whether you think that target is hackneyed by now is subjective, and if you do, I get that. But I'm not sure Ed is forcing anything. If anything, he's doing something that's easy and recognisable at this point. This doesn't mean that it isn't sincere; it just might not be as fresh. Also, I'm not sure this band was always fighting against something at all. One 'stream' of their work was the fighting against; another stream was the introverted, agnostic searching that you find on every album. So this band had a 'fighting against injustice' angle, but they weren't Rage Against the Machine, who were all fight and no real inner searching. It makes perfect sense to me that in middle age (whether I like it or not), Ed would want to kick back with his family and write about the beauty of life. Even Yield gave us hints of this. And if the success of Into the Wild, wasn't a huge clue, well...

Into the Wild wasn't really about kicking back with your family, having fun and enjoying a settled life though. Pretty much the opposite actually.

Right. I didn't mean to imply that it was. I just meant that it was about observing nature, and quiet reflection on the world around; the criticisms of society took a back seat to the more beautiful 'tree-hugging' stuff about the natural world. I don't necessarily see reflections on domestic family life and love as a very different category.

I don't think ITW the quiet, tree-hugging, enjoying nature thing you're describing. It's not just let's go for a picnic what the sunset and go home. The character leaves everything, leaves his family and society (and criticisms of society definitely are a part of it), and goes out in the wilderness looking for something, looking for himself, looking for whatever he needs (or he feels he needs, same difference). There's a turmoil and quest, and an attempt to fulfill that quest that leads to dramatic consequences for him and his relatives. However naive/silly one may think this quest or the character is, there is nothing quiet about this. The "reflective" songs now seem to be more conservative/materialist, fearing the loss of something/someone, wishing them to come back etc. It's very different IMO.

I didn't dismiss it as 'silly', and the quest is all you describe and more. But it's nothing more than what hippies have desired since forever -- to leave society and become one with nature as a lifestyle. So my 'tree-hugging' was a bit flippant, but it was just shorthand for an age-old desire that Into the Wild, music and film, expresses. That desire can also be fulfilled though, in a greater desire to spend more time with family and at home, in spite of the world's noise and demands. So in a way, Ed has moved from 'society' into a more indwardly-focussed schtick. Yes, he has a lot of money, but he's at peace. The difference between Ed and Chris McCandless is that Ed doesn't think being rich and being at peace are mutually exclusive concepts. But then really, which of us does? And should we be demonised for that?

Are you just talking to yourself here? I really don't see how this has anything to do with my posts.

Heathen wrote:I'm just saying that a) ITW was never a peaceful thing about having fun and observing nature, and that b) the feelings behind it seem very different from those behind songs like Future Days or Just Breathe etc. (ie. that ITW was in no way a 'huge clue' to what kind of reflective songs PJ would release nowadays). I'm not saying Ed should live like McCandless or something stupid like that.

harmless wrote:Let's hope that you are the one left Far Behind after this rapture.

harmless wrote:Why do I keep seeing 'Album Leak Download' and 'Apollo MP3 Download' etc. on Google?

Spoiler: show

I tried one today but it was password protected and then the usual shite. Got me excited though even though I knew it was fake.

harmless wrote:Yup. Maybe the idea was to get us all to talk Pearl Jam to death, thus reminding ourselves that we all still, in fact, love them.

harmless wrote:Let's not forget that when Ed wrote ITW, reams and reams of casual fans thought he'd 'gone soft'. If we're accusing him of that now, we're at least a decade too late.

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

harmless wrote:Why do I keep seeing 'Album Leak Download' and 'Apollo MP3 Download' etc. on Google?

have you tried any of them?