Star Wars: Episode VII: The Force Awakens (2015)

[tragabigzanda]

Star Wars sucks now

[epilogue]

For the record, I don't share trag's feelings about Smith or people in his position.

I feel so alone.

I'm here for you, buddy.

[epilogue]

Let's all keep in mind that I love all of you. Disagreeing is healthy and I appreciate the open conversation.

[LoathedVermin72]

No, I get what you're saying. I just disagree. With you and Mr. Noonan.

In fact, I'd go so far as to say that Mr. Noonan's quote, and by extension your position here, is not just overly precious, but even pretentious, boarding on (to use your term) ignorant.

Well, that's not fair, actually. I agree with Mr. Noonan that one CAN use art that way. And I actually tend to prefer that form of consumption myself. But his quote seems just fine excluding other possible ways of consuming and appreciating entertainment. And maybe it's just the way I'm reading it right now, but it's offense to imply that there's only one way to enjoy something and that anyone who enjoys that thing differently is somehow less than.

Anyone who knows anything about the way I view film should know that I find the "mindless entertainment" (escapism) approach to viewing movies fundamentally corrosive and, frankly, arrogantly wrong, since that is largely not how they are made. I believe art is more than that - more valuable, more important, more meaningful, more - so, yes, I am going to reject that as a valid way of appreciating film. I get that you disagree. That's fine. But I am not going to pretend I think that's an acceptable way of approaching movies, or any other art-form. I think it's completely backwards and retarding.

First of all, it is actually largely how they are made. I'm so happy that you still believe differently. And I hurt for the day it's proven to you that you're wrong. I'm really not looking forward to that. I hope it never happens, actually. We need more people who believe as purely, as innocently as you do.

Secondly, I love your conviction, always have. But I've never seen you more arrogantly wrong than in this argument. You can ignore and dismiss how others consume art all day long but insulting them for doing so isn't helpful. It's ignorant. It's elitist. And I think that kind of thinking is way more corrosive, personally.

Finally, you're assuming that film -- all film -- is some sort of elevated or respectable art form. There are plenty of arguments against that kind of thinking. But either way, please feel free to eat it up with whatever dressing you like. Just know that it doesn't make you better than anyone and assigning condemning language to those that consume differently, doesn't make you right or noble.

I find this to be a deeply cynical post. I don't agree with one single point in it. And it needs to be clear that I am not insulting anyone. I am writing off a specific (and widespread) ideology. Ideology and individual should not be conflated.

[epilogue]

I find this to be a deeply cynical post. I don't agree with one single point in it. And it needs to be clear that I am not insulting anyone. I am writing off a specific (and widespread) ideology. Ideology and individual should not be conflated.

There is no cynicism in the post. You read it wrong.

And fair enough on the second point. But this:

“I saw a buddy of mine, a fellow filmmaker friend, who is making this movie that is so f***ing wonderful. And I saw a chunk of it. And it was… spellbinding. This is the only way I can describe it. It’s like, I love movies and sometimes I over praise them and s**t, but this is the only way I can describe this: it was like – not figuratively, literally – being transported to the fountain of youth. And having the fountain of youth take me back to 1977. First time I saw a picture called Star Wars. I can’t say much more.” - Kevin Smith

Jesus Christ he needs to calm the fuck down. Nerd culture is so sad

Sure feels contrary to me. But I'll take your word for it because I like you.

My point still stands though. Just change remove the individual and apply it to the ideology. Same/same.

[E.H. Ruddock]

Getting waaaay too nerdy in here, even for me

[epilogue]

Getting waaaay too nerdy in here, even for me

[E.H. Ruddock]

Truth hurts Joey

[epilogue]

Oh okay, my bad.

[E.H. Ruddock]

You're feisty today

[epilogue]

I'm sorry, Ruddo. I just hate that kind of dismissal of open discourse more than Jordan hates escapism.

But I shouldn't take it out on you.

[E.H. Ruddock]

I'm sorry, Ruddo. I just hate that kind of dismissal of open discourse more than Jordan hates escapism.

But I shouldn't take it out on you.

Jesus Christ I was joking. K bye.

[LoathedVermin72]

I LOVE YOU JOEY I LOVE YOU RUDDO

[epilogue]

I'm sorry, Ruddo. I just hate that kind of dismissal of open discourse more than Jordan hates escapism.

But I shouldn't take it out on you.

Jesus Christ I was joking. K bye.

I APOLOGIZED FOR F*CKSS*KE

[epilogue]

I LOVE YOU JOEY I LOVE YOU RUDDO

I LOVE YOU TOO

[epilogue]

Ruddo... an olive branch:

Spoiler: show

[Simple Torture]

I think I agree with LV about 95%. I believe that the ability for individuals to think critically about art (and about their reactions to art) is essential to a functioning society (full disclosure: all of my future career goals/aspirations depend on this fact being true) and I think that nostalgia is, in the gentlest sense possible, a blinding force, one that usually distorts reality and fact in favor of metanarratives (like the phrase "Make America Great Again" as a campaign slogan). I have no problem criticizing an ideology that evaluates art based on its ability to make the old and cynical feel young and innocent, because--as LV said earlier--there's something very backward-looking about that that does nothing to confront the absolutely impossible task of living every day. At the same time, I'm well aware that I feel that way because my personal ideology evaluates art on its ability to--as I tell my students--address the taboo and its insidious role in our lives; to force us to confront our own prejudices and beliefs; and to ask impossible questions that we nevertheless attempt to answer (which will have an impact on how we treat other people and set up our society; questions like: "What's the value of one human life?" "What does it mean to be an individual?" "How do we make a determination between the rights of a few vs. the rights of many?"). I favor this view of art--and I'm willing to teach it to impressionable young adults--because I feel like it still allows everyone to have individual personal convictions (that is, it doesn't create robots) but it forces everyone to base their conclusions on a foundation of evidence and reasoning.

However, I'm also aware of the limitations inherent here. Yeah, I feel fine laughing at anyone who watches "Keeping Up with the Kardashians" and either (A) claims it makes them feel good because it's like they're part of these celebrities' real lives or (B) can't explain at all why they devote so much of their time to such "art." But if someone can come up with an evidence-based, reasonable claim for how KUWTHKs or "Dumb and Dumber 2" or a Black Eyed Peas' record makes them tremble in awe at the horror of existence, then I just kind of have to throw up my hands, even though I think they're total garbage.

Do I ever consume art simply to "escape," and do I every do anything that gives me that warm and fuzzy (but essentially hollow) feeling that nostalgia brings? Certainly, and I think anyone who says they don't is being disingenuous. But I think in moderation it can be fine, and as long as you never turn off your bullshit detector--always being on the lookout for poisonous ideas, that is--because just like junk food, that rush can feel good, but if that's the only thing that you bring in, you're going to wear down the parts of your mind that keep you alive and vibrant.

[epilogue]

Do I ever consume art simply to "escape," and do I every do anything that gives me that warm and fuzzy (but essentially hollow) feeling that nostalgia brings? Certainly, and I think anyone who says they don't is being disingenuous. But I think in moderation it can be fine, and as long as you never turn off your bullshit detector--always being on the lookout for poisonous ideas, that is--because just like junk food, that rush can feel good, but if that's the only thing that you bring in, you're going to wear down the parts of your mind that keep you alive and vibrant.

Yeah, this is basically where I'm at, too.

[epilogue]

And there are levels of nostalgia that are dangerous and detrimental, of course. But, again, I feel like I have to point out that not all nostalgia is just old, cynical men wishing to be young again. Not all nostalgia revolves around some lost innocence.

[LoathedVermin72]

Do I ever consume art simply to "escape," and do I every do anything that gives me that warm and fuzzy (but essentially hollow) feeling that nostalgia brings? Certainly, and I think anyone who says they don't is being disingenuous. But I think in moderation it can be fine, and as long as you never turn off your bullshit detector--always being on the lookout for poisonous ideas, that is--because just like junk food, that rush can feel good, but if that's the only thing that you bring in, you're going to wear down the parts of your mind that keep you alive and vibrant.

Yeah, this is basically where I'm at, too.

You guys are right, I'm such a liar lol