Red Mosquito

That was a massive post, Stip. I don't want to quote it but I want you to know that I loved it. Well said.

Not as much as I loved this one, though:

@SkitchP wrote:IM SO MAD

BurtReynolds wrote:What is art?

Spoiler: show

durdencommatyler wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:What is art?

Spoiler: show

no need for spoilers. My art should be shouted from the mountaintops. It is IMPORTANT

stip wrote:

stip wrote:Let's list all the things vader actually accomplishes in the original trilogy that does not include:

A: murdering his employees
B: throwing distracted old men off of balconies
C: kept his armor clean

anything else for this list?

D. Killed multiple well-trained rebel pilots. Maybe also Porkins?
E. Successfully organized a ground campaign in snowy, hazardous conditions
F. Drugged a woman.
G. Choked a guy from ACROSS THE ROOM (I'm sorry if that doesn't amaze you asshole)
H. Captured Han Solo.
I. Cut off his child's hand.
J. Managed to never once in his life tell his children he loved them.
K. Murdered Obi-Wan Kenobi
L. Was well-travelled.
M. Is basically the whole reason future emperors will not design their thrown rooms to be massive jungle gyms of metal stairways, poorly-railed heights, and dark shadows.

Team Durden 4 lyfe btw, he owned the fuck out of this thread.

N. Killed his wife.
O. Overcame a severe handicap that might have held others back.
P. Instituted a Death Star recycling campaign that apparently continues to this day.

McParadigm wrote:N. Killed his wife.
O. Overcame a severe handicap that might have held others back.
P. Instituted a Death Star recycling campaign that apparently continues to this day.

Q. "Nooooooooooooooooooooo!"

BurtReynolds wrote:

McParadigm wrote:N. Killed his wife.
O. Overcame a severe handicap that might have held others back.
P. Instituted a Death Star recycling campaign that apparently continues to this day.

Q. "Nooooooooooooooooooooo!"

R. "WAT!"

McParadigm wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

McParadigm wrote:N. Killed his wife.
O. Overcame a severe handicap that might have held others back.
P. Instituted a Death Star recycling campaign that apparently continues to this day.

Q. "Nooooooooooooooooooooo!"

R. "WAT!"

That justifies 30 years of Star Wars by itself.

wow

stip wrote:most of us interact with art because we want to be entertained—because life is hard and challenging and finding a way to turn off and disengage for a few hours is pleasurable. And that’s something to be applauded—it’s a small pleasure that helps make life worth living.

I immediately take issue with this. Art should not be looked at as a way to "disengage." Disengaged viewing is the single largest thing destroying film culture.

it’s worth remembering that many artists who try and talk about big ideas often get those things wrong and people might be better off having not learned something from them—bring wrong in an artful way doesn't change the fact that you're still wrong.

So? As long as you're an engaged viewer, then you can think critically and form your own opinion of what they're saying. Make no mistake: ALL art is ideological and, by extension, political. It's inherent in its nature. An artist doesn't have to "try" to address big ideas to do so.

But even if all art (or ‘real’ art) manages to teach people something about how the world works, simply knowing how things work is a recipe for cynicism and paralysis unless you ALSO think that things can change. This requires a certain degree of optimism about the human condition and a belief in our capacity to transform ourselves. Things that can take us back to our youthful idealism, that make us feel a bit better about the world, that help us imagine the impossible

I reject this linking of "youthful" with "idealism;" I find this to be a widespread misconception. Frankly, I find cynicism to be much more often linked to juvenility than idealism.

And for that matter, nostalgia is also enduring relationships and the desire for anchors in a world that doesn't have many. We are attracted to things we once knew because we care about them and we welcome the chance to continue to have them as a part of our lives. It’s why we don’t all get divorced every 5-10 years. Exposure to new things has value, but the capacity to build a meaningful bond also helps ensure we’re not all sociopaths. It’s helpful to have both in your life.

You can't seriously be saying what this reads like you're saying. People don't get divorced regularly because of familiarity and nostalgic attachment? That is ludicrous. A healthy, enduring relationship is, in many ways, about growth. About forward movement. About learning things about yourself and your partner. Understanding. Trust. Boiling it down to comfort and stability is absurd, unless we're talking exclusively about shitty, empty relationships.

And as McP mentioned earlier, for MANY people Star Wars is a part of their identity. These characters were the ones that helped us understand good and evil, heroism and cowardice, loyalty and sacrifice. It’s where we learned how to use our imagination. For about two generations it’s a foundational myth, our equivalent of the Illiad and Odyssey. And those myths were severely compromised. Not by the merchandising or the toys or the commercialism. That was always there and we separated them from the stories themselves. It was the prequels that were the problem. So a new Star Wars movie, one that looks like it may have the ability to repair the damage done by the prequels, that’s a BIG deal. It’s a recovery, a purification, a restoration of something innocent insofar as it was foundational—the base that all the baggage gets piled on top of. And being able to refresh that is about more than nostalgia or escapism. It is, in a small but meaningful way, a reaffirmation of our better selves. And that transcends entertainment (I’m more into the MCU right now than I am Star Wars but the MCU will never have the roots of star wars), and it transcends the petty minutia and bickering of nerd culture, and it transcends the marketing and the products and all the rest.

If Star Wars was not a part of your upbringing then you may not feel this. But you should be able to understand and appreciate WHY it has the impact it does for some people.

As I have said before, SW was every bit as much a part of my upbringing as anyone else's here, if not moreso. They were my favorite things on the planet as a kid. I watched them hundreds of times and consumed all the merchandise and minutiae. That said, I do not romanticize or mythologize what they are as films or a legacy. I try to look at them as I would any other work of art, despite my personal attachment. Thus, I do not feel loyal to the SW brand in any way, and am immediately skeptical of the kind of nostalgia-hustling infecting all the discourse about this upcoming film. I get that it's Star Wars, but I also get that it's J.J. Abrams. I also get that it's a 2015 sci-fi film. I'm not looking at it any differently than I would any other 2015 sci-fi movie directed by J.J. Abrams. Anything else seems like hype, marketing, nostalgia, fanboyism to me. I reject everything about the notion that a film being a piece of franchise means it "transcends" anything. Only an artist can make something transcendent, not the brand it belongs to.

stip wrote:

Oh that brings me back. Felt like a kid again

that's your hype, marketing, nostalgia, fanboyism talking

have we talked about how wonderful the variation on the star wars theme (i forget the actual title) is in the full trailer--the slower presentation at the end

LV, have you ever seen Cradle Will Rock?

stip wrote:LV, have you ever seen Cradle Will Rock?

I haven't.

It's quite possibly my favorite movie. I'm reluctant to say you'd love it, since you're hard to get a read on, but it deals with a lot of themes I think you'd enjoy that we've been back and forth on. Pretty amazing cast, too. It's a Tim Robbins film, so the messaging won't be subtle, but it's still very smart.

Hank Azaria, Bob Balaban, Ruben Blades, Joan Cusack, John Cusack, Cary Elwes,Paul Giamatti, Angus McFayden, Bill Murrary, Suasan Sarandon, Vanessa Redgravwe, John Turturro, Emily Watson