Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

oneway23 wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:You guys are focusing on writing credits more than I am. My gripe is with the sum total: Writing credits, horrific mix and mastering job, ticket prices and 10C relegation to the nosebleeds.

Characterize it however you want, but I miss when my favorite band felt like an organically cohesive creative unit with egalitarian business principles.

You said it yourself, they've never been Fugazi, much to Ed's chagrin.
As far as production, for all the vinyl love, pretty much all of their records sound like trash
You and I could spend all weekend on here talking about why, boring the tits off of people, but, it is what it is.

you should. I stayed with RM because I like long discursive exchanges between people who are passionate and knowledgeable about the things they are talking about

it’s not the puns

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

stip wrote:

oneway23 wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:You guys are focusing on writing credits more than I am. My gripe is with the sum total: Writing credits, horrific mix and mastering job, ticket prices and 10C relegation to the nosebleeds.

Characterize it however you want, but I miss when my favorite band felt like an organically cohesive creative unit with egalitarian business principles.

You said it yourself, they've never been Fugazi, much to Ed's chagrin.
As far as production, for all the vinyl love, pretty much all of their records sound like trash
You and I could spend all weekend on here talking about why, boring the tits off of people, but, it is what it is.

you should. I stayed with RM because I like long discursive exchanges between people who are passionate and knowledgeable about the things they are talking about

it’s not the puns

Watt for you

stip wrote:in the meantime what we know is the following

1. The band asked Watt to produce their album based on Eddie’s positive experiences working with him
2. They wrote songs as a unit rather than bringing in near complete compositions
3. The band was very proud of the outcome
4. The band has said that Watt has a deep knowledge of their catalog and would use it to help communicate musical ideas to the band during the writing and recording
5. The one song we have heard thus far has roots in many other moments from the bands history
6. Watt was considered a significant enough collaborator that he was given some writing credits


Conclusions that can be speculatively drawn from this include:

1. Watt was given a writing credit because the band thought he was a collaberative partner in the process and wanted to recognize that (moreso than past producers)
2. Watt insisited he be given one (unlike past producers - really BoB is the only one with the clout to have demanded this)

and less likely

3. The band went to Watt to ask him to write them some hit songs with top 40 potential. that would be the outcome you seem to be leaning towards (I am not trying to strawman you - if there is more to it then please elaborate). Or Pealr Jam are a bunch of doddering old men being taken advantage of by a slick producer (predatory is a strong adjective) But there doesnt seem to be evidence supporting that in pearl jam’s actions beyond the writing credit itself . This seems to be where you are, and other than a deep, abiding, and documented dislike of Watt Im not sure how you got there

96583UP wrote:btw US aggregate inflation is up over 20% since 3 years ago so people biiishing about ticket prices need to get the big picture. This isn't a PJ-specific thing

tragabigzanda wrote:

96583UP wrote:

stip wrote:in the meantime what we know is the following

1. The band asked Watt to produce their album based on Eddie’s positive experiences working with him
2. They wrote songs as a unit rather than bringing in near complete compositions
3. The band was very proud of the outcome
4. The band has said that Watt has a deep knowledge of their catalog and would use it to help communicate musical ideas to the band during the writing and recording
5. The one song we have heard thus far has roots in many other moments from the bands history
6. Watt was considered a significant enough collaborator that he was given some writing credits


Conclusions that can be speculatively drawn from this include:

1. Watt was given a writing credit because the band thought he was a collaberative partner in the process and wanted to recognize that (moreso than past producers)
2. Watt insisited he be given one (unlike past producers - really BoB is the only one with the clout to have demanded this)

and less likely

3. The band went to Watt to ask him to write them some hit songs with top 40 potential. that would be the outcome you seem to be leaning towards (I am not trying to strawman you - if there is more to it then please elaborate). Or Pealr Jam are a bunch of doddering old men being taken advantage of by a slick producer (predatory is a strong adjective) But there doesnt seem to be evidence supporting that in pearl jam’s actions beyond the writing credit itself . This seems to be where you are, and other than a deep, abiding, and documented dislike of Watt Im not sure how you got there

quit being so goddam reasonable!

trag chose the year 2024 for his PJ purity test

not the one where they started using Ticketmaster
not the one where they sell Merchandise at increasingly absurd prices ('it keeps us alive')
not the one where they played private corporate office party gigs
not the one where they befriended sports-venue owning billionaires
not the one where Ed severely tempered down his political talk so as not to offend those sports-venue owning billionaires
not the one where their album was a frankenstein of clips written in silos and then stitched together by the soundman

but the one where they played live in a room together and had a young person help bring out their best and gave him a credit for doing so

that was a bridge too far
the horror

btw US aggregate inflation is up over 20% since 3 years ago so people biiishing about ticket prices need to get the big picture. This isn't a PJ-specific thing

They could bless the pro tools sessions with the years of the Virgin Mary. If Serban Ghanea mixed it then why the hell am I listening to it?

Jorge wrote:

96583UP wrote:btw US aggregate inflation is up over 20% since 3 years ago so people biiishing about ticket prices need to get the big picture. This isn't a PJ-specific thing

The Cure played the biggest US tour of their career last year and made a buttload of money while fighting Ticketmaster on price gouging and managing to keep tickets affordable for fans (an average ticket cost of $68). These weren't small venues, either -- arenas and stadiums.

It sounds like it can be done, at least to some extent

tragabigzanda wrote:

96583UP wrote:

stip wrote:in the meantime what we know is the following

1. The band asked Watt to produce their album based on Eddie’s positive experiences working with him
2. They wrote songs as a unit rather than bringing in near complete compositions
3. The band was very proud of the outcome
4. The band has said that Watt has a deep knowledge of their catalog and would use it to help communicate musical ideas to the band during the writing and recording
5. The one song we have heard thus far has roots in many other moments from the bands history
6. Watt was considered a significant enough collaborator that he was given some writing credits


Conclusions that can be speculatively drawn from this include:

1. Watt was given a writing credit because the band thought he was a collaberative partner in the process and wanted to recognize that (moreso than past producers)
2. Watt insisited he be given one (unlike past producers - really BoB is the only one with the clout to have demanded this)

and less likely

3. The band went to Watt to ask him to write them some hit songs with top 40 potential. that would be the outcome you seem to be leaning towards (I am not trying to strawman you - if there is more to it then please elaborate). Or Pealr Jam are a bunch of doddering old men being taken advantage of by a slick producer (predatory is a strong adjective) But there doesnt seem to be evidence supporting that in pearl jam’s actions beyond the writing credit itself . This seems to be where you are, and other than a deep, abiding, and documented dislike of Watt Im not sure how you got there

quit being so goddam reasonable!

trag chose the year 2024 for his PJ purity test

not the one where they started using Ticketmaster
not the one where they sell Merchandise at increasingly absurd prices ('it keeps us alive')
not the one where they played private corporate office party gigs
not the one where they befriended sports-venue owning billionaires
not the one where Ed severely tempered down his political talk so as not to offend those sports-venue owning billionaires
not the one where their album was a frankenstein of clips written in silos and then stitched together by the soundman

but the one where they played live in a room together and had a young person help bring out their best and gave him a credit for doing so

that was a bridge too far
the horror

btw US aggregate inflation is up over 20% since 3 years ago so people biiishing about ticket prices need to get the big picture. This isn't a PJ-specific thing

They could bless the pro tools sessions with the years of the Virgin Mary. If Serban Ghanea mixed it then why the hell am I listening to it?

tommy wrote:Pearl Jam have been milking their fans dry for 20 years now, why the sudden outrage?

96583UP wrote:

Jorge wrote:

96583UP wrote:btw US aggregate inflation is up over 20% since 3 years ago so people biiishing about ticket prices need to get the big picture. This isn't a PJ-specific thing

The Cure played the biggest US tour of their career last year and made a buttload of money while fighting Ticketmaster on price gouging and managing to keep tickets affordable for fans (an average ticket cost of $68). These weren't small venues, either -- arenas and stadiums.

It sounds like it can be done, at least to some extent

it definitely can be done

but does the cure support as many people as Pearl Jam & Co. ?

they've got a lot of mouths to feed

i am concerned about how well-funded Boom's pension plan is

oneway23 wrote:

96583UP wrote:

Jorge wrote:

96583UP wrote:btw US aggregate inflation is up over 20% since 3 years ago so people biiishing about ticket prices need to get the big picture. This isn't a PJ-specific thing

The Cure played the biggest US tour of their career last year and made a buttload of money while fighting Ticketmaster on price gouging and managing to keep tickets affordable for fans (an average ticket cost of $68). These weren't small venues, either -- arenas and stadiums.

It sounds like it can be done, at least to some extent

it definitely can be done

but does the cure support as many people as Pearl Jam & Co. ?

they've got a lot of mouths to feed

i am concerned about how well-funded Boom's pension plan is

LOL. That last line broke me.

Genuine question: Does The Cure have any official band members remaining besides Robert Smith, or, are they all salaried employees? That would change the economic equation, to an extent.

Ms Harmless wrote:I love Robert and The Cures, but yeah, I don't remember him being a classically political musician; maybe I'm wrong

Jorge wrote:

Ms Harmless wrote:I love Robert and The Cures, but yeah, I don't remember him being a classically political musician; maybe I'm wrong

I don't know what that entails but I think calling out price gouging and predatory business practices (and, more importantly, actively opting out of them) is a good thing overall, especially since it directly benefits fans by making the shows accessible to more people than the very wealthy