Red Mosquito

I'd love a true full on Ed solo album. I think he's got a solo companion to Vitalogy in him. Not in the subject matter per se, but he can go down his weird arty noisey thing we haven't seen from him since the mid-90s, maybe not angry but sort of like that Liam Finn album where it was sort of a mad scientist one man band thing but very melodic. But, really, I'd hear whatever is inspiring him right now.

The RS interview validates what I was thinking, that the last 3 albums, if anything, they worked too hard on. Those are albums which I really like that they whipped into good shape just by sheer force of their craft and experience, rather than a pure burst of inspiration like Vitalogy or Ten was. I think they spent a ton of time thinking and rethinking how to make the songs as concise and immediate as possible, shortening verses, emphasizing certain parts, cutting out others. It's clear to me, they put alot of care into them and gave a shit. I don't see where the laziness criticism is coming from, aside from the time lapse between albums for which they filled with all kinds of other projects.

I hope they consciously decide to stick to their creative instincts next time out. Maybe put the next one out in a low pressure format and as under the radar as they can get it. I think a "huge" band like that feels the pressure to hone things into something that stands out and is immediate, which I consider the upside and downside of their last few albums. For them to get all weird or creative they'd have to not feel that pressure or maybe go to another producer. I don't think a rock band can put out a big "hit" these days and similarly albums don't have grand flops like they used to. They're at a place where maybe they can comfortably go down some interesting roads knowing that the whole universe isn't hanging on the next release.

Inbuilt expectations of themselves and the perceived (imagined) expectations of their fan base, are what's holding this band back from anything truly important, or even exploratory.

PJ member brings in an interesting demo that sounds like this. Pj edits chops changes and paturises it into sounding like, well, like PJ.

that's the process that needs to go. AND B'OB..they cannot with a straight face, hire him again and expect to be taken seriously.

dimejinky99 wrote:Inbuilt expectations of themselves and the perceived (imagined) expectations of their fan base, are what's holding this band back from anything truly important, or even exploratory.

PJ member brings in an interesting demo that sounds like this. Pj edits chops changes and paturises it into sounding like, well, like PJ.

Did I make a good point?

that's a first

dimejinky99 wrote:Did I make a good point?

that's a first

Nailed it, dime.

Jeff Ament wrote:It's pretty easy for me at this point because we don't have kids.

such a burn

Yeah, I'm glad they worked super hard. Wonder what just sort of hard would have sounded like? Or super, super, extra hard- that could have been super awesome.

I was flicking through the old Sleater-Kinney thread in anticipation of their new album and stumbled upon this article with EV interviewing S-K (April 2005 - around the time of the recently unearthed Avocado demo session).

Some interesting stuff in hindsight of how 'polished' PJ's output has been since. I really wish PJ would do as S-K did with The Woods and really push themselves to create a live-sounding "free and open" record, and risk making "some of the fans kind of angry". Which would of course mean recording with someone other than BoB (Dave Fridmann?)

Here's an excerpt (the full interview is quite long):

Vedder: Not to air my band's laundry, but our music seems to be getting more cerebral, and I need it to be more visceral or something. And there's a place where those two meet.

Brownstein: We really felt like music was becoming so soft and tame and smoothed-out and perfect.

Vedder: And most bands, the longer they play together, they will become more comfortable. You go from punk-rock songs to contemporary music. It's a trap.

Brownstein: I think we also just get sick of people feeling like they know who we are and what we're capable of. That feeling that you've been pigeonholed, and that all the possible people that could like you already like you, and all the other people are like, "Eh, I already know what that band sounds like." It's almost like you're tired of being yourself. I remember saying in the studio that I'd really love to make some of the fans kind of angry.

Tucker: One of our greatest assets as a band is that people underestimate us.

Vedder: I don't. I never have. But those other people...[Laughter]

Brownstein: Do you feel like that about your band? That people are like, "Oh, Pearl Jam is like this."

Vedder: They probably have, and I never even thought about it. Even when we do something positive, it's, "Oh yeah, they do positive things."

Tucker: I think playing with you guys onstage, there's potential there of being totally free and open. That was what was so great about playing together. We got to just jam in these huge stadiums - just hearing that kind of sound. We didn't even reallly think about it that much at the time, the impact of it all. I think it comes through a little bit on this record.

Is that the interview where Ed talks about being on stage and playing Rockin' in the Free World and believing someone was going to assassinate him or something like that?

so from what I got from that Jeff interview is that PJ needs to starting winging it again instead of working really, really hard

bodysnatcher wrote:so from what I got from that Jeff interview is that PJ needs to starting winging it again instead of working really, really hard

If they are going to make albums for you and not for themselves ... yes.

dimejinky99 wrote:Inbuilt expectations of themselves and the perceived (imagined) expectations of their fan base, are what's holding this band back from anything truly important, or even exploratory.

PJ member brings in an interesting demo that sounds like this. Pj edits chops changes and paturises it into sounding like, well, like PJ.

that's the process that needs to go. AND B'OB..they cannot with a straight face, hire him again and expect to be taken seriously.

I don't think they bring in any interesting enough demos, but otherwise your reasoning is correct. There are some songs on the recent albums that aren't what you'd call sounds like PJ but aren't any better for it.

I wonder if the inbuilt expectations you talk about are a consequence of other issues - like for the most part average songwriting talent of the people in the band. I haven't heard anything in those demos that is above what you'd expect from a musician who's closest thing to a day job is writing and playing music and has been for 3 decades.
I don't think Pearl Jam was ever a band where the most artistic and creative side of song writing was given much importance or encouragement. They went from "i wish i had more time with those songs" 20 years ago to "i really get to work on my part" since s/t.
The following visual illusion represent what i think is PJ's big problem


The A and B squares are the same shade of grey but appear different because of the context they're in. I think the issue with PJ is that they put more importance on the "square" in isolation than how it "looks" in context.

bodysnatcher wrote:so from what I got from that Jeff interview is that PJ needs to starting winging it again instead of working really, really hard

Actually, from your "side"'s point of view, yeah. No Code and Riot Act in particular, was PJ "wingin it". It was whatever came out of the band, without much overthought or refinement. I think a band can do that once every few records. Maybe they can do that now, or maybe they feel more comfortable doing that, we'll see.

I think there's many different ways of making records, I'd like the band to try out all ways. It's probably what makes a long career fun.

bodysnatcher wrote:so from what I got from that Jeff interview is that PJ needs to starting winging it again instead of working really, really hard

Actually, from your "side"'s point of view, yeah. No Code and Riot Act in particular, was PJ "wingin it". It was whatever came out of the band, without much overthought or refinement. I think a band can do that once every few records. Maybe they can do that now, or maybe they feel more comfortable doing that, we'll see.

I think there's many different ways of making records, I'd like the band to try out all ways. It's probably what makes a long career fun.

All of the first world problems some people have aside, one thing I found heartening in the interview is state of the band's relationships. This isn't some Mick and Keith or The Police situation, or the other dozens of bands that reunite after being broken up where the individuals have nothing going on between each other. They genuinely seem to miss each other after being away for a few months and seem to accept the differing view that can occur within a band. It's a genuine place to create from, and I think that's positive nearly 25 years into their career.

Mine wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Inbuilt expectations of themselves and the perceived (imagined) expectations of their fan base, are what's holding this band back from anything truly important, or even exploratory.

PJ member brings in an interesting demo that sounds like this. Pj edits chops changes and paturises it into sounding like, well, like PJ.

that's the process that needs to go. AND B'OB..they cannot with a straight face, hire him again and expect to be taken seriously.

I don't think they bring in any interesting enough demos, but otherwise your reasoning is correct. There are some songs on the recent albums that aren't what you'd call sounds like PJ but aren't any better for it.

I wonder if the inbuilt expectations you talk about are a consequence of other issues - like for the most part average songwriting talent of the people in the band. I haven't heard anything in those demos that is above what you'd expect from a musician who's closest thing to a day job is writing and playing music and has been for 3 decades.
I don't think Pearl Jam was ever a band where the most artistic and creative side of song writing was given much importance or encouragement. They went from "i wish i had more time with those songs" 20 years ago to "i really get to work on my part" since s/t.
The following visual illusion represent what i think is PJ's big problem


The A and B squares are the same shade of grey but appear different because of the context they're in. I think the issue with PJ is that they put more importance on the "square" in isolation than how it "looks" in context.

Fuck you! Those squares are NOT the same color!

B wrote:

Mine wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Inbuilt expectations of themselves and the perceived (imagined) expectations of their fan base, are what's holding this band back from anything truly important, or even exploratory.

PJ member brings in an interesting demo that sounds like this. Pj edits chops changes and paturises it into sounding like, well, like PJ.

that's the process that needs to go. AND B'OB..they cannot with a straight face, hire him again and expect to be taken seriously.

I don't think they bring in any interesting enough demos, but otherwise your reasoning is correct. There are some songs on the recent albums that aren't what you'd call sounds like PJ but aren't any better for it.

I wonder if the inbuilt expectations you talk about are a consequence of other issues - like for the most part average songwriting talent of the people in the band. I haven't heard anything in those demos that is above what you'd expect from a musician who's closest thing to a day job is writing and playing music and has been for 3 decades.
I don't think Pearl Jam was ever a band where the most artistic and creative side of song writing was given much importance or encouragement. They went from "i wish i had more time with those songs" 20 years ago to "i really get to work on my part" since s/t.
The following visual illusion represent what i think is PJ's big problem


The A and B squares are the same shade of grey but appear different because of the context they're in. I think the issue with PJ is that they put more importance on the "square" in isolation than how it "looks" in context.

Fuck you! Those squares are NOT the same color!

Mine wrote:

B wrote:

Mine wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Inbuilt expectations of themselves and the perceived (imagined) expectations of their fan base, are what's holding this band back from anything truly important, or even exploratory.

PJ member brings in an interesting demo that sounds like this. Pj edits chops changes and paturises it into sounding like, well, like PJ.

that's the process that needs to go. AND B'OB..they cannot with a straight face, hire him again and expect to be taken seriously.

I don't think they bring in any interesting enough demos, but otherwise your reasoning is correct. There are some songs on the recent albums that aren't what you'd call sounds like PJ but aren't any better for it.

I wonder if the inbuilt expectations you talk about are a consequence of other issues - like for the most part average songwriting talent of the people in the band. I haven't heard anything in those demos that is above what you'd expect from a musician who's closest thing to a day job is writing and playing music and has been for 3 decades.
I don't think Pearl Jam was ever a band where the most artistic and creative side of song writing was given much importance or encouragement. They went from "i wish i had more time with those songs" 20 years ago to "i really get to work on my part" since s/t.
The following visual illusion represent what i think is PJ's big problem


The A and B squares are the same shade of grey but appear different because of the context they're in. I think the issue with PJ is that they put more importance on the "square" in isolation than how it "looks" in context.

Fuck you! Those squares are NOT the same color!

Someone photoshopped the second picture.

B wrote:

Mine wrote:

B wrote:

Mine wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Inbuilt expectations of themselves and the perceived (imagined) expectations of their fan base, are what's holding this band back from anything truly important, or even exploratory.

PJ member brings in an interesting demo that sounds like this. Pj edits chops changes and paturises it into sounding like, well, like PJ.

that's the process that needs to go. AND B'OB..they cannot with a straight face, hire him again and expect to be taken seriously.

I don't think they bring in any interesting enough demos, but otherwise your reasoning is correct. There are some songs on the recent albums that aren't what you'd call sounds like PJ but aren't any better for it.

I wonder if the inbuilt expectations you talk about are a consequence of other issues - like for the most part average songwriting talent of the people in the band. I haven't heard anything in those demos that is above what you'd expect from a musician who's closest thing to a day job is writing and playing music and has been for 3 decades.
I don't think Pearl Jam was ever a band where the most artistic and creative side of song writing was given much importance or encouragement. They went from "i wish i had more time with those songs" 20 years ago to "i really get to work on my part" since s/t.
The following visual illusion represent what i think is PJ's big problem


The A and B squares are the same shade of grey but appear different because of the context they're in. I think the issue with PJ is that they put more importance on the "square" in isolation than how it "looks" in context.

Fuck you! Those squares are NOT the same color!

Someone photoshopped the second picture.

well duh

PJ's biggest problem is clearly some asshole putting his Heineken can on the checkerboard.