Red Mosquito

dimejinky99 wrote:A lot of songs on backspacer did well with maybe not joy but something like it. A sense of the carefree and even something potentially corny like love, in amongst the waves.

dimejinky99 wrote:A lot of songs on backspacer did well with maybe not joy but something like it. A sense of the carefree and even something potentially corny like love, in amongst the waves.

Birds in Hell wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:A lot of songs on backspacer did well with maybe not joy but something like it. A sense of the carefree and even something potentially corny like love, in amongst the waves.

Potentially?

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote: I'm pretty sure the answer to this will depend entirely on the genre. As most rock albums (especially hard rock) are not created under these conditions, simply because that would subvert rock's expectations (and people have to sell records), I'm sure your answers from this board will be biased. I wonder if the answer would be different if you asked about, say, jazz or orchestral albums. 'The sublime', a mood which many more traditional artists talk about trying to achieve, including classical musicians, is an ecstatic emotion, a musical nirvana. It's not necessarily got anything to do with depression, anger, or a fight of any kind.

Yeah, but that's why I referenced Bono's comment about how difficult it is to do in a rock/pop setting. Like I said, I don't believe in the tortured artist rule per se, but as a genre, rock has proven to be a pretty brutal place for those who don't have some kind of discontentment in their work. I can see why Pearl Jam would feel the need to keep anger as a safety net.

harmless wrote:Oops, sorry, missed that.

Post-rock, in a way, is more about evoking the sublime. 'Beauty' is just not something rock musicians tend to talk about, although some achieve it. A band like Sigur Ros will have no fear about saying that it's trying to create something beautiful, sonic poetry almost. Plenty of their music has been euphoric, free, and not tortured at all. They've done heavy, intense, even depressed, but never 'angry' as such (imo). My point (if I have one) is that rock musicians, on the whole, haven't tried to create a nuanced range of feelings and emotions in the listener. In the past, PJ have been very good at this for what, to all intents and purposes, is a plain old all-American rock band. But they're perhaps not self-aware, or aware of their process, enough to really push for something beyond the usual tortured rock music. And, well, when they've tried, have we really liked it? So you have a situation in which most great rock music is created under some tense, anxious conditions; but so is some of the worst, because in trying to create what your rock fans want, you can come off sounding contrived and forced. It's always amused me that people could call something like "Future Days" contrived or forced, because I have a hunch that it's the most honest kind of song Ed could be writing at the moment. The contented, cheeseball fans who will latch onto it know this.

Aaaaaaaaaand I wandered away from my point.

balam wrote:

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote: I'm pretty sure the answer to this will depend entirely on the genre. As most rock albums (especially hard rock) are not created under these conditions, simply because that would subvert rock's expectations (and people have to sell records), I'm sure your answers from this board will be biased. I wonder if the answer would be different if you asked about, say, jazz or orchestral albums. 'The sublime', a mood which many more traditional artists talk about trying to achieve, including classical musicians, is an ecstatic emotion, a musical nirvana. It's not necessarily got anything to do with depression, anger, or a fight of any kind.

Yeah, but that's why I referenced Bono's comment about how difficult it is to do in a rock/pop setting. Like I said, I don't believe in the tortured artist rule per se, but as a genre, rock has proven to be a pretty brutal place for those who don't have some kind of discontentment in their work. I can see why Pearl Jam would feel the need to keep anger as a safety net.

Lament wrote:

harmless wrote:Oops, sorry, missed that.

Post-rock, in a way, is more about evoking the sublime. 'Beauty' is just not something rock musicians tend to talk about, although some achieve it. A band like Sigur Ros will have no fear about saying that it's trying to create something beautiful, sonic poetry almost. Plenty of their music has been euphoric, free, and not tortured at all. They've done heavy, intense, even depressed, but never 'angry' as such (imo). My point (if I have one) is that rock musicians, on the whole, haven't tried to create a nuanced range of feelings and emotions in the listener. In the past, PJ have been very good at this for what, to all intents and purposes, is a plain old all-American rock band. But they're perhaps not self-aware, or aware of their process, enough to really push for something beyond the usual tortured rock music. And, well, when they've tried, have we really liked it? So you have a situation in which most great rock music is created under some tense, anxious conditions; but so is some of the worst, because in trying to create what your rock fans want, you can come off sounding contrived and forced. It's always amused me that people could call something like "Future Days" contrived or forced, because I have a hunch that it's the most honest kind of song Ed could be writing at the moment. The contented, cheeseball fans who will latch onto it know this.

Aaaaaaaaaand I wandered away from my point.

I don't think you wandered away from your point. I think you've made a really good case here. I agree with you that something like Future Days (or Just Breathe, for that matter) isn't contrived or forced; what I do think it is is a case where someone who has proven to be quite adept at painting from one side of the emotional spectrum doesn't have anywhere near the same gift on the other end of things. That's what I kinda meant in my first post about being in a weird position, and why I kinda think LB will be a mix of wading in the comfortable end of the dark side while doing a bit of toe-dipping in the (at this point probably more honest) light end. And I kinda can't blame them for that, because I don't think they're a band who would prove capable of making a Moondance or a Lovesexy, and I think if they tried to they'd end up getting crucified.

That being said, if they truly went all out into trying to express a whole range of emotions that fall outside of their comfort zone over the course of an entire record and failed miserably, I feel like I'd be ok with that (I don't really consider BS a happy/joyful/content album as a whole). But I'm probably in the minority. It's probably an ambition better suited ambition for an Ed solo record anyways.

verb_to_trust wrote:Ed has to be happy. A hot wife, healthy kids, more money than God. Lots of people who think hes important and kiss his ass, famous musician friends.......great for Ed, it just doesn't make for interesting or relatable subject matter for an album. And thats what BS has always been to me: the we're happy and satisfied with our awesome lives album. Its just boring.

BurtReynolds wrote:Contentment doesn't mean wealth.

Most great happy songs are written by people far from contentment.

Many happy songs aren't really as happy as I thought. (Dock of the Bay comes to mind).

Some artists are content but can still pull from times when they weren't. Ed doesn't seem that interested in that or able.

ah forget it, I can't keep up with Harmy's rapid firing posts!

harmless wrote:Backspacer doesn't lack because it's happy, it lacks because it's not very good, and better bands have done it. I've always asked that PJ make good music; and it's not been that good for a while. Simple as that, really.

harmless wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Contentment doesn't mean wealth.

Most great happy songs are written by people far from contentment.

Many happy songs aren't really as happy as I thought. (Dock of the Bay comes to mind).

Some artists are content but can still pull from times when they weren't. Ed doesn't seem that interested in that or able.

ah forget it, I can't keep up with Harmy's rapid firing posts!

Pew! Pew!

I WANT MORE SONGS.

Sgt. Crackpot wrote:

harmless wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:Contentment doesn't mean wealth.

Most great happy songs are written by people far from contentment.

Many happy songs aren't really as happy as I thought. (Dock of the Bay comes to mind).

Some artists are content but can still pull from times when they weren't. Ed doesn't seem that interested in that or able.

ah forget it, I can't keep up with Harmy's rapid firing posts!

Pew! Pew!

I WANT MORE SONGS.