Red Mosquito

Oh my.

Why?!

DON'T DO IT BERNIE

So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.

I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.

liebzz wrote:So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.

I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.

Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.

Green Habit wrote:

liebzz wrote:So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.

I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.

Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.

If the Dems win the presidency and a slight senate majority, is it "Goodbye, filibuster," you think?

Simple Torture wrote:If the Dems win the presidency and a slight senate majority, is it "Goodbye, filibuster," you think?

I think it depends on whether they can even wrangle 50 votes for whatever their preferred legislation is. If Joe Manchin is going to say no to it, why waste the nuclear option then? The Republicans had the same problem with their attempt to repeal parts of the ACA, and had to resort to that chimera-like tax cut bill that passed under the reconciliation loophole.

(To be clear, I think the filibuster is incredibly dumb and should have been junked a long time ago.)

Green Habit wrote:

liebzz wrote:So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.

I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.

Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.

This is why I have trouble with the "appeal to the center" argument. It didn't help Obama when he tried, and I have to believe Hillary would've met even more opposition, even though for many she was the moderate one. Bernie did better in open primaries versus closed ones, so I'm not sure independents are necessarily looking for some centrist. That said, if it's about personality/style then there's probably a viable path for those moderates who can connect in a personal way. Amy Klobuchar, Joe Biden and Julian Castro (long shot at this point) seem pretty likable.

I don't really want Bernie Sanders this time around.

Rob wrote:

Green Habit wrote:

liebzz wrote:So I generally like Bernie’s ideas, but i don’t trust that he is capable of turning it into legislation as president. He seems more or less a populist who will try to will changes to happen rather than building consensus or even a majority through negotiation and compromise. Even if he won the election and the Democrats won both houses, the chances of success for the country seem slim, even if his ideas are right.

I am not sure I’ll end up supporting Elizabeth Warren either, but she seems more capable in this regard than Sanders. I could easily be proven wrong on this. I just don’t get the impression that Warren is as autocratic about change even though their ideas are basically the same.

Passing legislation is going to be a problem for whoever becomes president, not just Bernie.

This is why I have trouble with the "appeal to the center" argument. It didn't help Obama when he tried, and I have to believe Hillary would've met even more opposition, even though for many she was the moderate one. Bernie did better in open primaries versus closed ones, so I'm not sure independents are necessarily looking for some centrist. That said, if it's about personality/style then there's probably a viable path for those moderates who can connect in a personal way. Amy Klobuchar, Joe Biden and Julian Castro (long shot at this point) seem pretty likable.

Klobuchar is pretty centrist so far, I’d like to hear more from her.

But dude, Obama accomplished a lot of good in his term. Maybe isn’t wasn’t as far as some
people would have liked, but his approach was very good for this country and the world at large

I am not talking about electability here, though I have hard time believing the general public will opt for the populist they don’t know against the one they do...I am talking about governing. I think if we are looking for another way to govern more peaceably and less divisively we may not want to look to someone as unmovable as Sanders. It will be basically the reverse of what we have now, but without the whole collusion and constant scandal thing going on.

I like how he's all "look at the numbers!" until someone asks him what it actually means.

Well Bernie sure had a nice 24-hour haul of $6 million since he announced.

Those Russians have a lot of money to give.

“We can't have open borders” -Kamala Harris


Amen to that

Who can say where this belongs