HBO Television Show: True Detective

[Harry Lime]

I'd say the only flaw with this show was how pulpy it became in the last two episodes (very X-Files-like). And it placed us in the point of view of the killer & extinguished much of the show's mystery.

[William Bloke]

OK, so I watched the final episode last night...wow. I really like that the show wasn't all about twists and turns, but more so a character study played out by 2 fantastic leads. I didn't need a big final reveal as in the end it's like Russ said all along - we're living in a shitheap and it's all gonna happen again and again anyways. Life ain't perfect and the world is a bad bad place.

The writing and character development was top notch - Rusty Cohle is up there with the great tv characters. Having said that it is also a lot to do with his interplay with Marty too. "Stop saying weird shit."

I love where tv is going these days, the cinematography and music in this show were excellent and both had a real positive effect on the overall value of the show. There were scenes and shots here that I constantly find myself thinking back to, just because of how good (or bad I guess) they felt. I love that tv is turning in America to value these things - technology and CGE is all sorts of awesome and well used can have amazing results, but for me quality writing and cinematography are the cornerstones on which everything else sits.

In the end I love how they wrapped this season up. There are sick-o fucks in this world who do sick-o fuck things daily, and that ain't about to stop. There are also good men out there trying to do what they believe is right to make some sort of difference. And a good story well told matters and can bring great joy, even if it's about bad things. And there's a little bit of hope there too - Rusty himself, the guy who believes that life is pretty fucked up (and he who has gone through the worst thing possible in losing a child) get's the last lines that maybe, just maybe, "the light may be winning".

[Mecca]

They didn't really overdo the hallucinations, which I liked. However, by the last episode you kinda forget about them and I was wondering whatever happened to that trait. Then they go and bring it up while they're driving around and show another in Carcosa.

[spike]

Malloy, you enjoy good television about as much as Rust Cohle enjoys life.

[DeLima]

is malloy a guy or a girl?

[Malloy]

is malloy a guy or a girl?

what does it have to do with the argument i'm making?

i don't see where a line of inquiry like this gets you?

[lennytheweedwhacker]

just answer the question, curley

[Malloy]

I think it was written to satisfy (and at times critique) a particular genre that may lean towards a certain demographic.

I think the character of Maggie has been sorely under-valued by critics of the show. I don't see her has being thinly-written at all. She's by far the most developed character besides the two leads. There's really no one else on the show that comes close to those three. Which makes sense; it's a two-character play as opposed to an ensemble piece in the vein of The Wire, or even Breaking Bad. The anthology aspect of it makes this even more pronounced; it's advantage is that it can tell a complete story without having to extend it beyond it's shelf life into multiple seasons. The downside is that you can't really make a full ensemble of fully developed characters with eight episodes. Vice versa for the advantages and disadvantages of a long-running series with an ensemble cast; yeah, you have the ability to fully flesh out a large number of characters but you run the risk of letting the seams show in the plotting if the show runs for too long.

see, making a distinction between maggie and the rest of the characters doesn't persuade me that's she well developed. only relatively well developed. maggie's development is totally impoverished when considering the development of the characters which you compare her to. those other characters are nothing more than types.

i'm also with nussbaum that cohle isn't well developed (only an idealized male fantasy). i don't see that cliche corrupted in any meaningful way. the set of formal problems that revolve around cliche (or genre) can be addressed in response to another post from last night. (and, True Detective's interest in genre and the constraints of genre is one its strongest features.)

i more inclined to agree with the other half of your post. the constraints of an eight episode anthology prevent character development on a larger scale. any kind of formal problem is one i'm interested in.

[Malloy]

I'd say the only flaw with this show was how pulpy it became in the last two episodes (very X-Files-like). And it placed us in the point of view of the killer & extinguished much of the show's mystery.

i like pulp quite a bit, and i'm interested in genre exercises that really show their colors. The Wire was an amazing take on the police procedural (though, based on the season, the subject matter was often much more than that). based on what i've heard from True Detective's show runner, he's super interested in genre. whenever i heard the talk of masks, i always thought of it in terms of types. and i looked forward to the formal games that the show might play.

i'm much more ambivalent about mystery (not as a genre, but as a concept), though i acknowledge the emotional response people have to it. series that heavily rely on mystery and mythology get huge ratings (like Lost), even as their meaning becomes more and more diluted. i'm completely disinterested in stuff like the yellow king and corcosa, in the same way that the idea of a smoke monster loses my interest. it may prove to be richly symbolic, but often it seems to be the sort of embellishing one does with a group of young kids.

[Captain Termite]

I'd say the only flaw with this show was how pulpy it became in the last two episodes (very X-Files-like). And it placed us in the point of view of the killer & extinguished much of the show's mystery.

Yes I think it was a mistake to show those Errol scenes at the beginning of the last episode, especially because it didn't tie in at all with anything else in the series. Rather than even attempt to fit him in coherently with everything the series had been building, the writer and directory chose to just throw as many random creepy psyco-killer cliches onto him as they could. I wish they had put trust in that they had already established his spookiness and creepiness (which they had). So I would have rathered that they not show him at all in that part of the episode, or if they do, at least make some intelligible connection to all the things about the cult/carcosa that had been so important in the series up to that point.

[digster]

see, making a distinction between maggie and the rest of the characters doesn't persuade me that's she well developed. only relatively well developed. maggie's development is totally impoverished when considering the development of the characters which you compare her to. those other characters are nothing more than types.

i'm also with nussbaum that cohle isn't well developed (only an idealized male fantasy). i don't see that cliche corrupted in any meaningful way. the set of formal problems that revolve around cliche (or genre) can be addressed in response to another post from last night. (and, True Detective's interest in genre and the constraints of genre is one its strongest features.)

i more inclined to agree with the other half of your post. the constraints of an eight episode anthology prevent character development on a larger scale. any kind of formal problem is one i'm interested in.

As for the first point, you don't seem willing to give any credence to the idea that since it's not an ensemble, other characters will not receive the development compared to Rust and Cohle. It's not a failing of the show; they're clearly not even attempting to in service of a more focused direction on Rust and Cohle. My point still stands; of all the characters in the show besides the two leads, who are the only ones intended to be developed to a significant degree, Maggie is the most-developed. She clearly has an arc and trials she goes through, and this happens despite the show rarely, if ever, showing things from her viewpoint.

I disagree about Cohle not being developed.

[DeLima]

I'd say the only flaw with this show was how pulpy it became in the last two episodes (very X-Files-like). And it placed us in the point of view of the killer & extinguished much of the show's mystery.

Yes I think it was a mistake to show those Errol scenes at the beginning of the last episode, especially because it didn't tie in at all with anything else in the series. Rather than even attempt to fit him in coherently with everything the series had been building, the writer and directory chose to just throw as many random creepy psyco-killer cliches onto him as they could. I wish they had put trust in that they had already established his spookiness and creepiness (which they had). So I would have rathered that they not show him at all in that part of the episode, or if they do, at least make some intelligible connection to all the things about the cult/carcosa that had been so important in the series up to that point.

I can get onboard with this criticism. The pile of children's clothes that woody sees would have been enough, and would have fit in better with the 'looming dread' atmosphere the show did so well in eps 1-3

[VinylGuy]

For me, the whole thing was perfect. Im diggin the soundtrack now.

[William Bloke]

For me, the whole thing was perfect. Im diggin the soundtrack now.

Grinderman's Honey Bee grabbed me by the scrote when it came on. Overall great use if music in this show. And then T Bone Burnett as your music director for the score. Niiice.

[Harry Lime]

For me, the whole thing was perfect. Im diggin the soundtrack now.

[15showsandcounting]

For me, the whole thing was perfect.

No doubt.

[epilogue]

I'm avoiding this most of the thread. Just dropped in to say that I watched the first two episodes last night. I know you were all DYING to know.

Anyway, yeah, it's good.

[Mecca]

Molloy has some good points as to why it may not actually be the best show ever. Regardless, people tend to speak in hyperbole about the present instead of actually sitting down and thinking "is this the best show ever?" To me, Molloy's main argument is akin to looking at the Mona Lisa and saying "this painting is not the best painting ever because we can't see what the woman is looking at"

[Jorge]

Molloy

[Mecca]

Molloy

its just a different perspective