Red Mosquito

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/politics/ ... index.html

can we just start all over?

bune wrote:

The great thing about that comic is that they can (and do) recycle it every 4 years, so we can all nod our heads and smirk because politics is idiocy and politicians are all the worst, and the dissolution of reason in all election efforts is definitely unrelated to the culture we the people build, accept, and maintain.

I have always been somewhat sympathetic to the right in a lot of ways, and largely consider myself something of a centrist, but I hate to admit that support for Trump has lowered my opinion of the right immensely. If you watched that debate and came away with any impression other than "This guy is a moron," you are probably a moron yourself.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/politics/ ... index.html

How much money is Trump promising all of these people who are selling their souls to him? seriously.

Again, how is this possible? Remember Mitt Romney making one snide classist statement? Just one? And it halfway sunk him all by itself? Trump accidentally insulted the families of soldiers who commit suicide, had his charity shut down for operating illegally, was found to have avoided paying taxes for over a decade, was found to have done business with known terror funders in Iran, and was accused of having sexually harassed women on his show. And that's like the last 72 hours of this guy's campaign. It's not even a week's worth of news!

This is the most insane presidential race. They will make documentaries, and write books about it someday.

McParadigm wrote:Again, how is this possible? Remember Mitt Romney making one snide classist statement? Just one? And it halfway sunk him all by itself? Trump accidentally insulted the families of soldiers who commit suicide, had his charity shut down for operating illegally, was found to have avoided paying taxes for over a decade, was found to have done business with known terror funders in Iran, and was accused of having sexually harassed women on his show. And that's like the last 72 hours of this guy's campaign. It's not even a week's worth of news!

This is the most insane presidential race. They will make documentaries, and write books about it someday.

You are the one with the answers on this board! If you are at a loss then there is no hope for any of us. Including Burt.

Just keep those free trade agreements up just a little while longer...

BurtReynolds wrote:Just keep those free trade agreements up just a little while longer...

i want to ask you a question but im just not sure i could get a legit response out of you

You can try.

BurtReynolds wrote:You can try.

anakin skywalker post

McParadigm wrote:Again, how is this possible? Remember Mitt Romney making one snide classist statement? Just one? And it halfway sunk him all by itself? Trump accidentally insulted the families of soldiers who commit suicide, had his charity shut down for operating illegally, was found to have avoided paying taxes for over a decade, was found to have done business with known terror funders in Iran, and was accused of having sexually harassed women on his show. And that's like the last 72 hours of this guy's campaign. It's not even a week's worth of news!

This is the most insane presidential race. They will make documentaries, and write books about it someday.

This is a measure of how much Hillary is hated.

Strat wrote:http://www.cnn.com/2016/10/03/politics/kelly-ayotte-new-hampshire-donald-trump-debate/index.html

How much money is Trump promising all of these people who are selling their souls to him? seriously.

How do you say you're going to vote for the guy, but you're not endorsing him? Isn't your vote an endorsement?

McParadigm wrote:Again, how is this possible? Remember Mitt Romney making one snide classist statement? Just one? And it halfway sunk him all by itself? Trump accidentally insulted the families of soldiers who commit suicide, had his charity shut down for operating illegally, was found to have avoided paying taxes for over a decade, was found to have done business with known terror funders in Iran, and was accused of having sexually harassed women on his show. And that's like the last 72 hours of this guy's campaign. It's not even a week's worth of news!

This is the most insane presidential race. They will make documentaries, and write books about it someday.

It's the death throes of the modern Republican party. The last guy they had in was a disaster, they got a black dude for 8 years, and they just can't come to grips with the fact that the country is changing in ways they don't like. In a desperate bid to hang on to the dream of the '50s, they're sticking with who they've got. They know this is their last chance.

November 9 will be their day of reckoning.

It just boggles my mind that anyone supports a guy who openly advocates for abolishing the FDA and EPA, and completely deregulating business. I mean, are people insane? I can't imagine anything more dangerous.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:It just boggles my mind that anyone supports a guy who openly advocates for abolishing the FDA and EPA, and completely deregulating business. I mean, are people insane? I can't imagine anything more dangerous.

Oh, make no mistake...it's mind-boggling.

meatwad wrote: It's the death throes of the modern Republican party. The last guy they had in was a disaster, they got a black dude for 8 years, and they just can't come to grips with the fact that the country is changing in ways they don't like. In a desperate bid to hang on to the dream of the '50s, they're sticking with who they've got. They know this is their last chance.

November 9 will be their day of reckoning.

Obviously we won't know for some time, but I think the Republican party will be just fine. They are running a candidate who if he loses it won't be because of his actual positions. It will be because the guy they ran is so obviously unqualified, uniquely unfit to be given the reigns of power, and has done more than any candidate in memory to sabotage his own campaign. I still don't think this election is over by a long shot, but just picture how different the conversation would be today if Trump managed to merely string together mildly coherent cliched sentences for 90 minutes last week. Or then didn't dive headfirst into Clinton's Machado trap. Or decide that blaming Hillary for Bill's infidelities is a good idea.

If, and I still think it's a bigger if than a lot of people think, Trump does in fact lose, just think how "moderate" Paul Ryan or even Ted Cruz will seem in by comparison in 2020 to people who don't understand politics.

The party will be survive. They still dominate at the state level, still have drawn congressional districts all over the country that favor their party. I'm more curious about this foray into anti-trade territory. Is that temporary or will the party go back to supporting trade again and traditional Republican positions?

Demographics are pretty tough for them as far as the electoral college goes right now, but they're still in great position for the House and state governments. And in 2018 Democrats are defending a ton of Senate seats so Republicans will almost assuredly take back the Senate then if they happen to lose it this year because of Trump.

If Trump does lose it's going to be very interesting to see how quickly Republicans try to distance themselves from this episode in their history. Or it'll be fascinating to watch if they don't, I suppose.

So far, the rise of white nationalism is the most depressing social movement of my lifetime. Literally feeding Trump like some damn cancer cell. Just. Why? How?

4/5 wrote:

meatwad wrote: It's the death throes of the modern Republican party. The last guy they had in was a disaster, they got a black dude for 8 years, and they just can't come to grips with the fact that the country is changing in ways they don't like. In a desperate bid to hang on to the dream of the '50s, they're sticking with who they've got. They know this is their last chance.

November 9 will be their day of reckoning.

Obviously we won't know for some time, but I think the Republican party will be just fine. They are running a candidate who if he loses it won't be because of his actual positions. It will be because the guy they ran is so obviously unqualified, uniquely unfit to be given the reigns of power, and has done more than any candidate in memory to sabotage his own campaign. I still don't think this election is over by a long shot, but just picture how different the conversation would be today if Trump managed to merely string together mildly coherent cliched sentences for 90 minutes last week. Or then didn't dive headfirst into Clinton's Machado trap. Or decide that blaming Hillary for Bill's infidelities is a good idea.

If, and I still think it's a bigger if than a lot of people think, Trump does in fact lose, just think how "moderate" Paul Ryan or even Ted Cruz will seem in by comparison in 2020 to people who don't understand politics.

The party will be survive. They still dominate at the state level, still have drawn congressional districts all over the country that favor their party. I'm more curious about this foray into anti-trade territory. Is that temporary or will the party go back to supporting trade again and traditional Republican positions?

Demographics are pretty tough for them as far as the electoral college goes right now, but they're still in great position for the House and state governments. And in 2018 Democrats are defending a ton of Senate seats so Republicans will almost assuredly take back the Senate then if they happen to lose it this year because of Trump.

If Trump does lose it's going to be very interesting to see how quickly Republicans try to distance themselves from this episode in their history. Or it'll be fascinating to watch if they don't, I suppose.

I agree with most of what you're saying, and should have qualified my statement a bit more toward the presidential aspirations of the party. Though I'm not sure how the Congress will play out and what the long-term ramifications of Trump might be, it will be interesting to see, if he loses, how badly he loses and what that means going forward. I can see a few scenarios:

1. Trump loses 'yuge,' and his candidacy becomes a reckoning for Republicans as to what they stand for. They have managed to put together quite a shaky coalition over the years (from evangelicals to white nationalists), and if something is going to splinter these factions it would be a landslide defeat and possibly the loss of the Senate. Ryan and company will be forced to realign the party with their vision, and they'll either have the balls to do that or they'll continue to struggle with minorities and independents.

2. Trump comes close, and the so-called "civil war" amongst Republicans rages on, because if he comes close, he ain't going anywhere. He'll take a nice, long vacation, but we know the guy isn't going to fade into the sunset like Romney. He'll continue to build his vision of the Republican party, which we know is at odds with the Paul Ryans and Lindsey Grahams of the GOP.

3. Trump wins. All bets are off...my gut feeling is that Trump will only "pivot" once he wins. I'm not as afraid of him winning as some people are, because let's face it, he was a Democrat for many years, he clearly knows how to manipulate a large portion of the electorate, and most likely isn't the closet Nazi psycho he's been playing on TV for the past 18 months. He saw what worked for him very early on in the Republican primaries, and he's going to ride that out to Election Day. The day after, he'll have to be everyone's president, but because of the campaign, he'll have to spend a long time building bridges if he's going to have anyone believe him.

4/5 wrote:

meatwad wrote:It's the death throes of the modern Republican party. The last guy they had in was a disaster, they got a black dude for 8 years, and they just can't come to grips with the fact that the country is changing in ways they don't like. In a desperate bid to hang on to the dream of the '50s, they're sticking with who they've got. They know this is their last chance.

November 9 will be their day of reckoning.

Obviously we won't know for some time, but I think the Republican party will be just fine. They are running a candidate who if he loses it won't be because of his actual positions. It will be because the guy they ran is so obviously unqualified, uniquely unfit to be given the reigns of power, and has done more than any candidate in memory to sabotage his own campaign. I still don't think this election is over by a long shot, but just picture how different the conversation would be today if Trump managed to merely string together mildly coherent cliched sentences for 90 minutes last week. Or then didn't dive headfirst into Clinton's Machado trap. Or decide that blaming Hillary for Bill's infidelities is a good idea.

If, and I still think it's a bigger if than a lot of people think, Trump does in fact lose, just think how "moderate" Paul Ryan or even Ted Cruz will seem in by comparison in 2020 to people who don't understand politics.

The party will be survive. They still dominate at the state level, still have drawn congressional districts all over the country that favor their party. I'm more curious about this foray into anti-trade territory. Is that temporary or will the party go back to supporting trade again and traditional Republican positions?

Demographics are pretty tough for them as far as the electoral college goes right now, but they're still in great position for the House and state governments. And in 2018 Democrats are defending a ton of Senate seats so Republicans will almost assuredly take back the Senate then if they happen to lose it this year because of Trump.

If Trump does lose it's going to be very interesting to see how quickly Republicans try to distance themselves from this episode in their history. Or it'll be fascinating to watch if they don't, I suppose.

I'd say the one caveat is that while Trump may not be a presence after 2016, he's given Trumpists within the GOP prominence that they didn't have before. We'll have to see if a more conventional Republican from here on out will have to pander to Trumpists in order to keep a coalition together.

On the other hand, Ara is definitely correct that there's a generational aspect in play. The Silents and early Boomers that remember the 1950s fondly are dwindling fast. It won't be too much longer until there's no one left that was old enough to remember that decade at all.

Green Habit wrote:

4/5 wrote:

meatwad wrote:It's the death throes of the modern Republican party. The last guy they had in was a disaster, they got a black dude for 8 years, and they just can't come to grips with the fact that the country is changing in ways they don't like. In a desperate bid to hang on to the dream of the '50s, they're sticking with who they've got. They know this is their last chance.

November 9 will be their day of reckoning.

Obviously we won't know for some time, but I think the Republican party will be just fine. They are running a candidate who if he loses it won't be because of his actual positions. It will be because the guy they ran is so obviously unqualified, uniquely unfit to be given the reigns of power, and has done more than any candidate in memory to sabotage his own campaign. I still don't think this election is over by a long shot, but just picture how different the conversation would be today if Trump managed to merely string together mildly coherent cliched sentences for 90 minutes last week. Or then didn't dive headfirst into Clinton's Machado trap. Or decide that blaming Hillary for Bill's infidelities is a good idea.

If, and I still think it's a bigger if than a lot of people think, Trump does in fact lose, just think how "moderate" Paul Ryan or even Ted Cruz will seem in by comparison in 2020 to people who don't understand politics.

The party will be survive. They still dominate at the state level, still have drawn congressional districts all over the country that favor their party. I'm more curious about this foray into anti-trade territory. Is that temporary or will the party go back to supporting trade again and traditional Republican positions?

Demographics are pretty tough for them as far as the electoral college goes right now, but they're still in great position for the House and state governments. And in 2018 Democrats are defending a ton of Senate seats so Republicans will almost assuredly take back the Senate then if they happen to lose it this year because of Trump.

If Trump does lose it's going to be very interesting to see how quickly Republicans try to distance themselves from this episode in their history. Or it'll be fascinating to watch if they don't, I suppose.

I'd say the one caveat is that while Trump may not be a presence after 2016, he's given Trumpists within the GOP prominence that they didn't have before. We'll have to see if a more conventional Republican from here on out will have to pander to Trumpists in order to keep a coalition together.

On the other hand, Ara is definitely correct that there's a generational aspect in play. The Silents and early Boomers that remember the 1950s fondly are dwindling fast. It won't be too much longer until there's no one left that was old enough to remember that decade at all.

That's when Gen X and the Vedder/Cornell ticket takes control. Mandatory Flannel Fridays for all federal employees!