Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:

theplatypus wrote:

harmless wrote:I can see the count in working for Sirens if the song itself was produced in a more low-key manor.

They need to stop producing these songs in mansions.

LOL oops, I didn't mind my manors there.

Mike wrote:Is anyone else a little irritated how almost every song starts so...abruptly? It's like they're all edited to start exactly on the first beat without any sort of room. Instantly in your face. Sirens is the biggest offender. I like the beginning of Infallible.

The fade out on LB was wildly criticized, but I think it works into Infallible. Not jarring like the rest.

Thejambi wrote:

EJ wrote:

Mike wrote:Nothing As It Seems sounds like a band starting a song, Sirens beginning sounds like BO'B slapping me in the face and screaming "HERE'S THE HIT SINGLE, PAY ATTENTION".

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't making my point very well. The beginning of Sirens sounds so unnatural - and, that's definitely on the producer. But, as always, the band okayed it.

Now that you guys mention it, it is intro that sours me most on this song. Going back to what Harmless said somewhere last night, I think the intros overall are pretty damn poor on this album. Apart from MYM, i dont think any really stand out.

Backspacer had the same problem. Sadly, I think I get the producer's mindset. BoB seems to treat songs rather like advertising "jingles": the beginning and end are just the "header" and "footer" of the song, not the main body. They announce, and then leave. It's the stuff in the middle, with Ed singin' good and loud, that's the crucial stuff, baby. That mindset bothers me, but not in Sirens as much as other songs. I think of what Getaway or Lightning Bolt might've sounded like on Binaural, Riot Act or Yield, and I think they'd have really put some thought into how songs introduced themselves and then departed. These things aren't peripheral to the song itself, but BoB treats them as if they are. The average radio listener isn't hoping for a cool intro and certainly not a cool outro, I'm guessing is the theory.

Edit: I didn't like all of the intros and outros on S/T, but at least they attempted plenty of them. For all that "Inside Job" didn't end up being a great song, I think it had a great intro/outro. And "Parachutes" wouldn't be the song it is without those few bars at the beginning to acclimatise us to the change in style that it was at the time.

harmless wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

EJ wrote:

Mike wrote:Nothing As It Seems sounds like a band starting a song, Sirens beginning sounds like BO'B slapping me in the face and screaming "HERE'S THE HIT SINGLE, PAY ATTENTION".

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't making my point very well. The beginning of Sirens sounds so unnatural - and, that's definitely on the producer. But, as always, the band okayed it.

Now that you guys mention it, it is intro that sours me most on this song. Going back to what Harmless said somewhere last night, I think the intros overall are pretty damn poor on this album. Apart from MYM, i dont think any really stand out.

Backspacer had the same problem. Sadly, I think I get the producer's mindset. BoB seems to treat songs rather like advertising "jingles": the beginning and end are just the "header" and "footer" of the song, not the main body. They announce, and then leave. It's the stuff in the middle, with Ed singin' good and loud, that's the crucial stuff, baby. That mindset bothers me, but not in Sirens as much as other songs. I think of what Getaway or Lightning Bolt might've sounded like on Binaural, Riot Act or Yield, and I think they'd have really put some thought into how songs introduced themselves and then departed. These things aren't peripheral to the song itself, but BoB treats them as if they are. The average radio listener isn't hoping for a cool intro and certainly not a cool outro, I'm guessing is the theory.

Binaural knew how to start off a song.

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

EJ wrote:

Mike wrote:Nothing As It Seems sounds like a band starting a song, Sirens beginning sounds like BO'B slapping me in the face and screaming "HERE'S THE HIT SINGLE, PAY ATTENTION".

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't making my point very well. The beginning of Sirens sounds so unnatural - and, that's definitely on the producer. But, as always, the band okayed it.

Now that you guys mention it, it is intro that sours me most on this song. Going back to what Harmless said somewhere last night, I think the intros overall are pretty damn poor on this album. Apart from MYM, i dont think any really stand out.

Backspacer had the same problem. Sadly, I think I get the producer's mindset. BoB seems to treat songs rather like advertising "jingles": the beginning and end are just the "header" and "footer" of the song, not the main body. They announce, and then leave. It's the stuff in the middle, with Ed singin' good and loud, that's the crucial stuff, baby. That mindset bothers me, but not in Sirens as much as other songs. I think of what Getaway or Lightning Bolt might've sounded like on Binaural, Riot Act or Yield, and I think they'd have really put some thought into how songs introduced themselves and then departed. These things aren't peripheral to the song itself, but BoB treats them as if they are. The average radio listener isn't hoping for a cool intro and certainly not a cool outro, I'm guessing is the theory.

Binaural knew how to start off a song.

Yup.

So did Riot Act.

Like Clockwork >>>>> Lightning Bolt

Pretty much pre-Backspacer Pearl Jam the more i think about it. I blame the deguitarenization of the guitars.

Uggg. Hitting 3000 feels a lot like turning 30.

Thejambi wrote:Uggg. Hitting 3000 feels a lot like turning 30.

nice work you old fart

Dr. Van Nostrand wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Uggg. Hitting 3000 feels a lot like turning 30.

nice work you old fart

Smells the same as a new fart.

I'd be over the moon if they went with a new producer next time but I strongly doubt they will.

harmless wrote:I'd be over the moon if they went with a new producer next time but I strongly doubt they will.

Mike wrote:I don't even necessarily need intros but I would like it to flow a little better and more naturally. It's this clinical precision. You could startle me with the beginning of Sirens.

I have a few minor quibbles with getaway but it seems like that one segues into the main riff in the way you guys are talking about

Yeah, it's just very simplistic and obvious, when it should be one of the highlights of the song.

harmless wrote:Yeah, it's just very simplistic and obvious, when it should be one of the highlights of the song.

Maybe not extremes but two comparisons in which that intro could have been more successful:
Go: Intro really isn't repeated in the song but it has charm, intrigue and busts out with energy.
DTE: much simpler of an intro that really isn't different than the verse. However just the guitars gearing up and eds howl sets the song up with intent and tact.

I guess i want to compare these two because Getaway falls in the middle of these two. There is some noodling like Go but it isnt very interesting and it tries to slide right into the verse but doesn't carry the same weight that DTE does.

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

EJ wrote:

Mike wrote:Nothing As It Seems sounds like a band starting a song, Sirens beginning sounds like BO'B slapping me in the face and screaming "HERE'S THE HIT SINGLE, PAY ATTENTION".

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't making my point very well. The beginning of Sirens sounds so unnatural - and, that's definitely on the producer. But, as always, the band okayed it.

Now that you guys mention it, it is intro that sours me most on this song. Going back to what Harmless said somewhere last night, I think the intros overall are pretty damn poor on this album. Apart from MYM, i dont think any really stand out.

Backspacer had the same problem. Sadly, I think I get the producer's mindset. BoB seems to treat songs rather like advertising "jingles": the beginning and end are just the "header" and "footer" of the song, not the main body. They announce, and then leave. It's the stuff in the middle, with Ed singin' good and loud, that's the crucial stuff, baby. That mindset bothers me, but not in Sirens as much as other songs. I think of what Getaway or Lightning Bolt might've sounded like on Binaural, Riot Act or Yield, and I think they'd have really put some thought into how songs introduced themselves and then departed. These things aren't peripheral to the song itself, but BoB treats them as if they are. The average radio listener isn't hoping for a cool intro and certainly not a cool outro, I'm guessing is the theory.

Binaural knew how to start off a song.

It was just the rest of the song that lost its way

stip wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

EJ wrote:

Mike wrote:Nothing As It Seems sounds like a band starting a song, Sirens beginning sounds like BO'B slapping me in the face and screaming "HERE'S THE HIT SINGLE, PAY ATTENTION".

Yeah, exactly. I wasn't making my point very well. The beginning of Sirens sounds so unnatural - and, that's definitely on the producer. But, as always, the band okayed it.

Now that you guys mention it, it is intro that sours me most on this song. Going back to what Harmless said somewhere last night, I think the intros overall are pretty damn poor on this album. Apart from MYM, i dont think any really stand out.

Backspacer had the same problem. Sadly, I think I get the producer's mindset. BoB seems to treat songs rather like advertising "jingles": the beginning and end are just the "header" and "footer" of the song, not the main body. They announce, and then leave. It's the stuff in the middle, with Ed singin' good and loud, that's the crucial stuff, baby. That mindset bothers me, but not in Sirens as much as other songs. I think of what Getaway or Lightning Bolt might've sounded like on Binaural, Riot Act or Yield, and I think they'd have really put some thought into how songs introduced themselves and then departed. These things aren't peripheral to the song itself, but BoB treats them as if they are. The average radio listener isn't hoping for a cool intro and certainly not a cool outro, I'm guessing is the theory.

Binaural knew how to start off a song.

It was just the rest of the song that lost its way

To the MOON with you!

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:Yeah, it's just very simplistic and obvious, when it should be one of the highlights of the song.

Maybe not extremes but two comparisons in which that intro could have been more successful:
Go: Intro really isn't repeated in the song but it has charm, intrigue and busts out with energy.
DTE: much simpler of an intro that really isn't different than the verse. However just the guitars gearing up and eds howl sets the song up with intent and tact.

I guess i want to compare these two because Getaway falls in the middle of these two. There is some noodling like Go but it isnt very interesting and it tries to slide right into the verse but doesn't carry the same weight that DTE does.

Getaway has intro noodling? Where? It just starts with some snare and the palm-muted guitar riff with the distortion turned off. Part of the problem is that annoying palm-muted chug chug chug that Ed keeps doing. He needs to think outside that box. At least Sirens is a welcome change from that.

harmless wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

harmless wrote:Yeah, it's just very simplistic and obvious, when it should be one of the highlights of the song.

Maybe not extremes but two comparisons in which that intro could have been more successful:
Go: Intro really isn't repeated in the song but it has charm, intrigue and busts out with energy.
DTE: much simpler of an intro that really isn't different than the verse. However just the guitars gearing up and eds howl sets the song up with intent and tact.

I guess i want to compare these two because Getaway falls in the middle of these two. There is some noodling like Go but it isnt very interesting and it tries to slide right into the verse but doesn't carry the same weight that DTE does.

Getaway has intro noodling? Where? It just starts with some snare and the palm-muted guitar riff with the distortion turned off. Part of the problem is that annoying palm-muted chug chug chug that Ed keeps doing. He needs to think outside that box. At least Sirens is a welcome change from that.

It still sounds like the song is revving up, though.