Red Mosquito

Yield is their best produced album. END OF STORY

stip wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

stip wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:The first half of No Code is the most thoughtfully-paced and musically pleasing sequence of songs in their catalogue for me. It's so effective, it seems like the very embodiment of "good flow".

stip, it's like we're listening to different albums.

by all means, walk me through what you hear

I just think the songs, in the order that they've been sequenced, compliment each other very well.

Whenever I prepare a mix, or write a setlist for my band, or prepare a radio show (when I used to do that), the last thing I'd want is a bunch of songs in series that are of a similar volume, tempo and intensity - I always look for difference, even stark difference. The challenge is to make those differences flow in a way that highlights the strengths of each adjoining song and I really think the band nailed that with No Code.

Exactly, besides you are already in the mood of the album...that´s why its so good, because the first 3 tracks are really different from the previous one yet they coexist in the best way possible.

What is a great sequence for you Stip?

within pearl jam? I think the first 8 songs on Ten flow together amazingly well. Each song almost feels like it picks up where the other one left off.

well part of what makes No Code so special is that it was the first time they were reaching for something different. Even if their records all sound diferent from the previous one, you had here a new band, ed sounded different, he was mixed different and the songs were pretty different from themselves too.
Thats what makes No Code such a great album, and what makes this flow of songs so good....they already did ten.

stip wrote:

dprival78 wrote:if the sometimes -> hail, hail explosion didn't blow your mind, then you have no soul.

i still think it is kind of annoying (the volume increase) especially since it goes right back into a gentle and relaxed song right after.

Strat wrote:Part of me thinks that Sticking Hail Hail as 2nd song was Pearl Jams way of being not completely committed to the idea of being different. Much like the way McP discusses with Binaural. How they reached for something but didnt quite commit to the final idea. Tossing Hail Hail as the second track was quintessential pearl jam (compared to the rest of the album)

I dont know. Still working this out. I love No Code though.

Its similar to what they prefer to do during a live show..start with a Release or Long Road then hit with something heavier.....Last Exit, Corduroy, ect....

To act like this is somehow something the band hasn't always done or preferred isn't accurate. True enough Yield, Binaural, Pearl Jam and BS all start fast, but how often do you see that on a setlist?

The sometimes---->hail, hail transition is one of my favorite Pearl Jam moments. Any effort to discredit its awesomeness I will wage war against.

I wouldn't say that No Code has the best 'flow' of any of their records, but I would say that, considering the types of songs they were going to put on the album, I honestly am not sure there's a better possible order. That first run of five songs in particular makes order out of some pretty diverse musical choices.

VinylGuy wrote:

stip wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

stip wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:The first half of No Code is the most thoughtfully-paced and musically pleasing sequence of songs in their catalogue for me. It's so effective, it seems like the very embodiment of "good flow".

stip, it's like we're listening to different albums.

by all means, walk me through what you hear

I just think the songs, in the order that they've been sequenced, compliment each other very well.

Whenever I prepare a mix, or write a setlist for my band, or prepare a radio show (when I used to do that), the last thing I'd want is a bunch of songs in series that are of a similar volume, tempo and intensity - I always look for difference, even stark difference. The challenge is to make those differences flow in a way that highlights the strengths of each adjoining song and I really think the band nailed that with No Code.

Exactly, besides you are already in the mood of the album...that´s why its so good, because the first 3 tracks are really different from the previous one yet they coexist in the best way possible.

What is a great sequence for you Stip?

within pearl jam? I think the first 8 songs on Ten flow together amazingly well. Each song almost feels like it picks up where the other one left off.

well part of what makes No Code so special is that it was the first time they were reaching for something different. Even if their records all sound diferent from the previous one, you had here a new band, ed sounded different, he was mixed different and the songs were pretty different from themselves too.
Thats what makes No Code such a great album, and what makes this flow of songs so good....they already did ten.

The fact that No Code is the album title and they wanted something 'different' should not be used as a catch all to explain away stuff that doesn't work well (to my ears, anyway). And I am not talking about the songs on Ten being better or worse. I just think the jumps from song to song derail the flow of the album and make it harder for the songs to sweep you away.

verb_to_trust wrote:

Strat wrote:Part of me thinks that Sticking Hail Hail as 2nd song was Pearl Jams way of being not completely committed to the idea of being different. Much like the way McP discusses with Binaural. How they reached for something but didnt quite commit to the final idea. Tossing Hail Hail as the second track was quintessential pearl jam (compared to the rest of the album)

I dont know. Still working this out. I love No Code though.

Its similar to what they prefer to do during a live show..start with a Release or Long Road then hit with something heavier.....Last Exit, Corduroy, ect....

To act like this is somehow something the band hasn't always done or preferred isn't accurate. True enough Yield, Binaural, Pearl Jam and BS all start fast, but how often do you see that on a setlist?

The sometimes---->hail, hail transition is one of my favorite Pearl Jam moments. Any effort to discredit its awesomeness I will wage war against.

Can't Keep into Save You does the exact same thing and I think does it much more successfully.

Meh. Riot Act enjoyed a comeback and had its day in the sun a year of so ago. No Code is always loved with me. Sometimes-who you are sounds like a good idea but then your into hail hail-in my tree, and that won't work. Or will it?

Like Stip it was the first time I was disappointed by Pearl Jam. However there were still 5 songs that I instantly loved but it was a big shock not to love every song. Up to that point I had never heard a PJ song I didn't think was amazing. Well except foxy mop which I didn't consider a real song then anyway.

dimejinky99 wrote:Meh. Riot Act enjoyed a comeback and had its day in the sun a year of so ago. No Code is always loved with me. Sometimes-who you are sounds like a good idea but then your into hail hail-in my tree, and that won't work. Or will it?

you can try it. I haven't played that list yet.

Just did. It does work. Feels a bit weird though.

No Code is my favourite Pearl Jam album by far and no other 1-7 sequence on any of their other records comes close to that of No Code. I love how the album is so introspective and yet has that hint of optimism and warmth to it. I always feel good listening to this album. The only other PJ album I can say that for is probably "Yield"; even Binaural, which I really love, lacks that warmth of No Code.

nightmareblack0206 wrote:Yield is their best produced album. END OF STORY

This is the only one I've ever read that on this forum. Ever.

Nobody even really ranks Yield among the great productions, do they? Usually it's No Code, Riot Act and Vitalogy.

stip wrote: I just think the jumps from song to song derail the flow of the album and make it harder for the songs to sweep you away.

complete opposite for me. the shovel-to-the-face of hail hail was so jarring and unexpected that it pulled me in to the record even tighter. from song to song, I had absolutely no clue what was coming next (aside from who you are and habit, having heard them before). but they went in so many directions, and that element of surprise and uneasiness track to track kept me on my toes like no other album. it was fucking great.

you mentioned the can't keep -> save you combo.. yea that works, but it was completely expected. even if you hadn't heard save you before, there was a head's up that it was coming. with hail hail, it just comes out of nowhere.

dprival78 wrote:

stip wrote: I just think the jumps from song to song derail the flow of the album and make it harder for the songs to sweep you away.

complete opposite for me. the shovel-to-the-face of hail hail was so jarring and unexpected that it pulled me in to the record even tighter. from song to song, I had absolutely no clue what was coming next (aside from who you are and habit, having heard them before). but they went in so many directions, and that element of surprise and uneasiness track to track kept me on my toes like no other album. it was fucking great.

you mentioned the can't keep -> save you combo.. yea that works, but it was completely expected. even if you hadn't heard save you before, there was a head's up that it was coming. with hail hail, it just comes out of nowhere.

yeah, it comes from nowhere and in a more violent way...Save You begins with a main riff and then its kinda of a uptempo rocker, while Hail Hail is a brick of fucking loud guitars.

stip wrote:Can't Keep into Save You does the exact same thing and I think does it much more successfully.

This makes me wonder if we even perceive and process sounds in the same way.

digster wrote:I wouldn't say that No Code has the best 'flow' of any of their records, but I would say that, considering the types of songs they were going to put on the album, I honestly am not sure there's a better possible order. That first run of five songs in particular makes order out of some pretty diverse musical choices.

I'm with digster here. Great post.

Unplugged was recorded 22 years ago today.

theplatypus wrote:

stip wrote:Can't Keep into Save You does the exact same thing and I think does it much more successfully.

This makes me wonder if we even perceive and process sounds in the same way.

that I think they're similar, or that that I think the riot act combo works better?

to elaborate.

Sometimes (while I'm not a huge fan of the song I respect it in the same way I don't enjoy SoH but think it is well executed) is a soft , contemplative and reflective piece of mood music, and it does that quite effectively. It has a 'staring at your reflection in a still, glassy lake' feel to it--thinking small quiet thoughts about great big things, and captures those spatial dynamics (and the tension in them) really effectively. And then the start of hail hail is like someone driving a truck out of the bottom of the lake--it shatters the stillness and you have to dive out of the way to avoid getting hit.

I've never been quite sure I wouldn't prefer hail hail to be a bit softer anyway, since it is a reflective song and the music is a bit jarring (although I like the song quite a bit either way). But I just do not see the point of having that really shattering transition between the lovely mood of sometimes and the monster truck intro to hail hail. It destroys the feel of sometimes, but isn't taking you to a new space either, since as soon as the song ends it goes back to trying to create a somewhat similar moody space in the next two songs. If the point of those two songs was that the process of trying to achieve a quiet stillness is unnerving you could make the case that this is intentional, but that's not really what is going on in those songs, is it?

There needs to be another song between sometimes and hail hail.


Maybe it's just the dull screeching sound at the end of can't keep and the fact that Save You ramps up a bit (or the fact that everything on riot act is muted so louder songs won't sound quite so loud) but I feel like save you drags can't keep with it, so the move from the slow atmospheric piece into the faster, heavier song is expanding the spaces available to us, rather than obliterating the first with the second and then deciding it doesn't want to keep the second around either.

I really don't like that transition. I never have.