Red Mosquito

Lament wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:Merkinball feels much more like a dusting off of Vitalogy's workbench than it feels like the preliminary foundations for No Code.

I kinda think Merkinball feels like the seeds of the album #4 they decided not to make. I Got Shit, Long Road, Falling Down, Open Road, Red Mosquito, Lukin, Habit, Brain of J...the stuff that appeared in 1995 suggests that there may have initially been a very different direction they had in mind for the next record. There's probably a great alternate album to be put together there.

Thinking about this a bit. I'm not sure we'd have a pearl jam had they gone with this. It's an almost too predictable follow through from Vitalogy, they needed 'a left turn' creatively. Everything on that list would probably work together, bit almost too well. Far too similar in tone and construction. They're great songs but No Code (almost) as it is, was the right choice.

dimejinky99 wrote:

Lament wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:Merkinball feels much more like a dusting off of Vitalogy's workbench than it feels like the preliminary foundations for No Code.

I kinda think Merkinball feels like the seeds of the album #4 they decided not to make. I Got Shit, Long Road, Falling Down, Open Road, Red Mosquito, Lukin, Habit, Brain of J...the stuff that appeared in 1995 suggests that there may have initially been a very different direction they had in mind for the next record. There's probably a great alternate album to be put together there.

Thinking about this a bit. I'm not sure we'd have a pearl jam had they gone with this. It's an almost too predictable follow through from Vitalogy, they needed 'a left turn' creatively. Everything on that list would probably work together, bit almost too well. Far too similar in tone and construction. They're great songs but No Code (almost) as it is, was the right choice.

By far No Code was the right choice. Opened up a whole new world for PJ (even though I'm not part of the camp that disliked it initially or thought it was such a gigantic departure - "Hail, Hail" is a pretty standard PJ tune).

dimejinky99 wrote:

Lament wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:Merkinball feels much more like a dusting off of Vitalogy's workbench than it feels like the preliminary foundations for No Code.

I kinda think Merkinball feels like the seeds of the album #4 they decided not to make. I Got Shit, Long Road, Falling Down, Open Road, Red Mosquito, Lukin, Habit, Brain of J...the stuff that appeared in 1995 suggests that there may have initially been a very different direction they had in mind for the next record. There's probably a great alternate album to be put together there.

Thinking about this a bit. I'm not sure we'd have a pearl jam had they gone with this. It's an almost too predictable follow through from Vitalogy, they needed 'a left turn' creatively. Everything on that list would probably work together, bit almost too well. Far too similar in tone and construction. They're great songs but No Code (almost) as it is, was the right choice.

I agree that they probably don't exist as a band anymore if they end up making that record, and that making No Code was definitely the right choice. But I think it would have made for a hell of a swan song.

why don't they exist as a band anymore with that record?

stip wrote:why don't they exist as a band anymore with that record?

I think the "experiments" (and you can debate how truly experimental it was, but I don't think you can argue the band FELT it was experimental) that take place on No Code were one of the major factors in the members no longer seeing Pearl Jam as an entity that was slowly suffocating them and instead feeling comfortable in the setting of the band. If that hadn't taken place I think there's a real chance they end up going their separate ways not long after. We'd probably have seven Three Fish records, ten Brad records, and Mike would have probably been in Velvet Revolver.

those are all great songs to us as hardcore fans, but i don't really see anything in that list that would cause the band to implode bc of more popularity. compared to the 3 albums before, that list of songs seems pretty refrained... not as refrained and pulled back as No Code by any means, but if that record existed i could see people in 2013 calling it a shift as well

bodysnatcher wrote:those are all great songs to us as hardcore fans, but i don't really see anything in that list that would cause the band to implode bc of more popularity. compared to the 3 albums before, that list of songs seems pretty refrained... not as refrained and pulled back as No Code by any means, but if that record existed i could see people in 2013 calling it a shift as well

I don't think it would've been because of popularity. Their sales had decreased with each record and I can't imagine that any record they released would have reversed that trend.

Does anyone happen to have the article (very short, maybe just a blurb) about album #4 (Hit Parader, maybe?) from mid-1995 where they listed a bunch of songs that were in contention and said the album was tentatively titled something like "The Hot Rock" or something silly like that?

EDIT: A google search pulled up this post from the Pit (which of course had no replies cause it wasn't about a poster of how easy is it to buy beer at Venue X)...

"Anyone here recall seeing or maybe still have an advertisement for a new PJ album that was supposed to be released in the fall of 1995??? I know there were posters that had a tracklisting on them. I remember seeing in one of those rock magazines probably either 'Circus' or 'Hit Parader' a tracklisting for it in August of 1995. I think it was supposed to come out in November. I specifically remember the tracklisting being 10 songs and songs titled 'Tommy Who' and 'Havoc'. 'All Night' I believe was the first track and I'm pretty sure 'I Got Shit' and 'Long Road' and 'Brain Of J' were also on there. Wish I had kept that magazine!!!"

EDIT II: Here's something from around the same time, http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/506500 ... they.jhtml

I Got Shit, Hard To Imagine, 23 Street Chorus, Habit, Tommy Who, Long Road, Fallin' Down, The Needle, Lukin, and Leavin' Here are the ten they list in the article. I assume 23 Street Chorus is All Night and Tommy Who is Who You Are. Anyone know what The Needle is?

I guess I'm just not sure that it was the songs on no code that made the difference. Maybe it was changing drummers and the sense that they could make big decisions that mattered.

And hasn't jeff said he almost quit the band during the no code sessions? That hardly sounds cathartic

stip wrote:I guess I'm just not sure that it was the songs on no code that made the difference. Maybe it was changing drummers and the sense that they could make big decisions that mattered.

And hasn't jeff said he almost quit the band during the no code sessions? That hardly sounds cathartic

I don't think it was the songs per se. I think (and the information out there suggests) that there was potentially a very different album on the table that may have come out in late 1995-1996. I think if they had gone and put out the album that was probably most convenient to put out at the time, a lot of the garbage and what not that they worked through during the extended sessions for the album probably would've just stay bottled up as they took the new album back out on the road. I could see that end up leading to one or more members getting to the point where they just said "Fuck it" and bailed. The band members themselves say that all of that time in the studio with Jack helped them learn how to communicate in a healthy way as a band. Without all of the later sessions that produced much of what ended up on No Code, it's very possible they never have that breakthrough.

Strat wrote:

stonefury wrote:

Lament wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Lament wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:I don't think I've ever heard Open Road. I'll have to look it up.

It's probably more of a very structured "jam," but it seems to be an idea that they'd been kicking around (or at least worked on before playing it), and sonically it fits in very well with I Got Shit/Falling Down/Red Mosquito and the other summer of 95 songs.

Are there lyrics and/or vocals?

Yeah.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asBmQXEsm5M

It's a slow burner, but it feels like it had the potential to really become something special.

Yeah, this is one of my favorites. It definitely does not feel like it was made up on the spot. I wish they turned it into a full-fledged album track and took it on the road again.

According to Five Horizons, they may have sound-checked it in Phoenix in 1998.

I believe the old Rumor Pit addressed this issue back in the day. it is not an improv but an actual written song. I have always lvoed it.

Holy crap, the rumor pit. I forgot all about that!

I had heard both, but I figured the whole listing on the setlist website as "Jam" relegated it to improv: http://pearljam.com/setlists/1010/1995/ ... l_coliseum

It definitely sounds like an improv. Or maybe it's just a song that goes nowhere.

stonefury wrote:I had heard both, but I figured the whole listing on the setlist website as "Jam" relegated it to improv: http://pearljam.com/setlists/1010/1995/ ... l_coliseum

Given their track record, I wouldn't necessarily consider Pearl Jam's website to be an authoritative source.

From 5H, here's the actual setlist from that night:



It definitely sounds like an entirely impromptu improv to me; they just amble around the same chord aimlessly, there's nothing to suggest a pre-existing idea or structure.

Lament wrote: Does anyone happen to have the article (very short, maybe just a blurb) about album #4 (Hit Parader, maybe?) from mid-1995 where they listed a bunch of songs that were in contention and said the album was tentatively titled something like "The Hot Rock" or something silly like that?

I remember this, but I very much doubt there was any substance to it. From memory, the magazine had simply collated a list of songs and improvs that had already been played on the 1995 tour (like Habit, Red Mosquito and Brain of J., etc.)

Lament wrote:Anyone know what The Needle is?

I'd guess "Habit."

**oops, just saw that was listed separately. Maybe "Red Mosquito."

Birds in Hell wrote: I remember this, but I very much doubt there was any substance to it. From memory, the magazine had simply collated a list of songs and improvs that had already been played on the 1995 tour (like Habit, Red Mosquito and Brain of J., etc.)

Possibly, but Long Road, 23 Street Chorus, and Tommy Who weren't things that were played in 1995, were they? Assuming 23 Street Chorus is All Night (though the one recollection specifically remembers another article referencing All Night by name) and Tommy Who is Who You Are, that's three tracks that at the time weren't known to exist that turned out to have definitely been recorded around that time. So that makes me think there's more to it than just collecting the names of songs and improvs that were already known.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Lament wrote:Anyone know what The Needle is?

I'd guess "Habit."

**oops, just saw that was listed separately. Maybe "Red Mosquito."

Could be needle and the damage done? They did play it at least once with Flea around that time.

Lament wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote: I remember this, but I very much doubt there was any substance to it. From memory, the magazine had simply collated a list of songs and improvs that had already been played on the 1995 tour (like Habit, Red Mosquito and Brain of J., etc.)

Possibly, but Long Road, 23 Street Chorus, and Tommy Who weren't things that were played in 1995, were they? Assuming 23 Street Chorus is All Night (though the one recollection specifically remembers another article referencing All Night by name) and Tommy Who is Who You Are, that's three tracks that at the time weren't known to exist that turned out to have definitely been recorded around that time. So that makes me think there's more to it than just collecting the names of songs and improvs that were already known.

True enough, perhaps there was more to it than I assumed.

The beginning of 1995 through to the release of No Code was such a strange and liminal time for the band, it really felt as though they were putting Pearl Jam back together from scratch and it took a while to figure out what that meant.

which was the tour when eddie was driving around in a bus and not traveling with the rest of the band?

stip wrote:which was the tour when eddie was driving around in a bus and not traveling with the rest of the band?

1995

The only reason Long Road and I Got Shit don't fit on No Code is because they weren't on No Code. If those two songs were on there originally and Sometimes and Present Tense were on Merkin Ball and someone asked if the Merkin Ball songs could go on No Code people would say "they don't fit he mood man....the mood!". That goes for the songs left off Binaural too. "The mood" is just what you are used too.