Red Mosquito

Im trying to figure out this sensation and I wonder if its' because Eddie is singing these one-note lines with an intensity as if he's singing Lukin but then the music is like way slower and laid-back than that, so its like a song that wants to go fast but its held back to the point where it hurts you. Its like a rocker in chains or something. "Go" this is not.

Stop

NO

I appreciate your different point of view, MJD, but it's hard to really discuss or debate this stuff when all of your criticism seems to be "I don't know, it just kinda sounds bad and boring to me."

Also it's weird because PJ usually has amazing openers.

Once, Go, Last Exit, Sometimes, Life Wasted all PERFECT for the albums they opened...honestly so is Brain of J, Cant Keep, and Gonna See My Friend...all of them tell you what album you will be listening to, work as good first songs, and set the tone. Getaway is a step below that but still good. PJ has a 9/10 perfect record with openers and this is the one total black mark because besides sounding bad (IMO) it doesn't even set the tone for the right album because the strengths of Binaural are nothing like this song.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:I appreciate your different point of view, MJD, but it's hard to really discuss or debate this stuff when all of your criticism seems to be "I don't know, it just kinda sounds bad and boring to me."

Well all music is very subjective, so it's hard to discuss without subjective statements.

I find it to be a rock song that sounds like it is forcefully held back, as I said compare it to Lukin which has a similar melody line, the latter is much more driving and doesn't overstay its welcome, in this song you have a drum line that is just sort of plodding along, a bass line that sounds like it should be driving but isn't actually doing it, and then weird filters that makes it sound a lot like unpleasant noise, and it doesn't then go anywhere interesting.

I can understand what you're saying about feeling like the energy is held back by the "sound" a bit. I do think this is an issue that plagues some of the rockers on Binaural. While the production is beautifully suited to bigger, spacier, softer songs, I think "Grievance" and "Insignificance" sound inappropriately muddy and plodding. They're still good songs, but they could be better if the production emphasized their energy more.

That said, I've never found "Breakerfall" or "Gods' Dice" to be affected by these issues. I think they both sound great; full of energy. All the instruments seem nicely defined. Perhaps it's because their pace is faster than the other two songs I mentioned, so there's just no time for them to get bogged down. They're also more consistently paced - the biggest "problem section" of the other songs for me are these little riff breakdowns that sound totally neutered in the way they're produced and performed (in "Insignificance" it's the blaring riff right before the chorus, in "Grievance" it's the messy punch behind the "big guy, big eye watchin' me" parts). "Breakerfall" and "Gods' Dice" are faster, punchier, punkier. The pace never slows down to let a moment like that become pronounced.

But I dont find it nearly as fast or punky as Eddie seems to think the song is or the melody wants to.

Like I said, I compare it to Lukin because those first lines he sings are very similar to his entrance into Lukin, but while Lukin is fast and driven, I dont get that feeling in Breakerfall. I feel like it's a laid-back rocker that wants to be a fast rocker. Its like it doesn't have the energy it's supposed to have. The fact that those notes Eddie is singing, the bass line Jeff is playing, etc, sounds somehow laid-back is why the song just falls flat on its face to me.

Funnily enough, I listened to Lukin and I think these songs are nearly the exact same tempo. Or close enough. So what is it that makes Lukin feel driven and Breakerfall held back? I think this one might be Matt's fault playing like he's on a walk in the park rather than Jack Irons just banging the drums in lukin, either that or its the hollow background riff not working as well as Lukin's powerchords

To be honest, I really don't hear the "Lukin" comparison at all. They have different paces, sounds, and goals. "Lukin" is much noisier, more abrasive, messier, garagier. "Breakerfall" is way more straight-ahead, barreling, punk-infused rock. I'm not really sure how to account for what you're describing because I don't hear it.

mikejasond wrote:Also it's weird because PJ usually has amazing openers.

Once, Go, Last Exit, Sometimes, Life Wasted all PERFECT for the albums they opened...honestly so is Brain of J, Cant Keep, and Gonna See My Friend...all of them tell you what album you will be listening to, work as good first songs, and set the tone. Getaway is a step below that but still good. PJ has a 9/10 perfect record with openers and this is the one total black mark because besides sounding bad (IMO) it doesn't even set the tone for the right album because the strengths of Binaural are nothing like this song.

Breakerfall is better than Once, Life Wasted, Gonna See My Friend and Getaway. I'd even entertain an argument that it's better than Sometimes, too.

Breakerfall is better than Go.

That's because Lukin is the song that Breakerfall is desperately wanting to be but isn't. It's Ed's vocal line that sounds the same to me...that one-pitch "THERES A GIRL OUT ON THE LEDGE WHOS GOT NOWHERE TO TURN" reminds me of his entrance into Lukin "DAJOIJDA WDOIAJWD OISJGOSE JOIJ AWDOIJA WODIJAWDOJI"

Im not saying Lukin is what Ed wants Breakerfall to be, but its what the song sounds like it should be...it needs those driving drums. Breakerfall ISNT barrelling which is its problem. That guitar riff does not really move the song forward and neither does Matt. Its a song that wants to be driving but isnt, played with a laid back sort of riff that doesnt have groove. Its awkward and muddy and just....doesn't really work for me.

chewm wrote:Breakerfall is better than Go.

let's not get crazy

durdencommatyler wrote:

mikejasond wrote:Also it's weird because PJ usually has amazing openers.

Once, Go, Last Exit, Sometimes, Life Wasted all PERFECT for the albums they opened...honestly so is Brain of J, Cant Keep, and Gonna See My Friend...all of them tell you what album you will be listening to, work as good first songs, and set the tone. Getaway is a step below that but still good. PJ has a 9/10 perfect record with openers and this is the one total black mark because besides sounding bad (IMO) it doesn't even set the tone for the right album because the strengths of Binaural are nothing like this song.

Breakerfall is better than Once, Life Wasted, Gonna See My Friend and Getaway. I'd even entertain an argument that it's better than Sometimes, too.

I disagree on many levels, as I think it's a worse song than all of those, but even if you liked it better than GSMF and Getaway as a song (Better than Once? Really?) it doesnt work as an intro to Binaural because Binaural does not sound like this song after the first 3 songs which are very out of place on the album.

mikejasond wrote:That's because Lukin is the song that Breakerfall is desperately wanting to be but isn't. It's Ed's vocal line that sounds the same to me...that one-pitch "THERES A GIRL OUT ON THE LEDGE WHOS GOT NOWHERE TO TURN" reminds me of his entrance into Lukin "DAJOIJDA WDOIAJWD OISJGOSE JOIJ AWDOIJA WODIJAWDOJI"

Im not saying Lukin is what Ed wants Breakerfall to be, but its what the song sounds like it should be...it needs those driving drums. Breakerfall ISNT barrelling which is its problem. That guitar riff does not really move the song forward and neither does Matt. Its a song that wants to be driving but isnt, played with a laid back sort of riff that doesnt have groove. Its awkward and muddy and just....doesn't really work for me.

I mean...I don't know what you're hearing subjectively, but objectively, you just seem wrong here. The songs don't even share similar structures. This strikes me as a bizarre comparison.

mikejasond wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

mikejasond wrote:Also it's weird because PJ usually has amazing openers.

Once, Go, Last Exit, Sometimes, Life Wasted all PERFECT for the albums they opened...honestly so is Brain of J, Cant Keep, and Gonna See My Friend...all of them tell you what album you will be listening to, work as good first songs, and set the tone. Getaway is a step below that but still good. PJ has a 9/10 perfect record with openers and this is the one total black mark because besides sounding bad (IMO) it doesn't even set the tone for the right album because the strengths of Binaural are nothing like this song.

Breakerfall is better than Once, Life Wasted, Gonna See My Friend and Getaway. I'd even entertain an argument that it's better than Sometimes, too.

I disagree on many levels, as I think it's a worse song than all of those, but even if you liked it better than GSMF and Getaway as a song (Better than Once? Really?) it doesnt work as an intro to Binaural because Binaural does not sound like this song after the first 3 songs which are very out of place on the album.

Who says all of an album has to sound like its opening tracks?

mikejasond wrote:That's because Lukin is the song that Breakerfall is desperately wanting to be but isn't.

This is completely wrong. "Lukin" is modeled after early hardcore punk, "Breakerfall" is a lot closer to a Pete Townshend rave-up. They're aiming for totally different things, and land successfully on each.

LoathedVermin72 wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

mikejasond wrote:Also it's weird because PJ usually has amazing openers.

Once, Go, Last Exit, Sometimes, Life Wasted all PERFECT for the albums they opened...honestly so is Brain of J, Cant Keep, and Gonna See My Friend...all of them tell you what album you will be listening to, work as good first songs, and set the tone. Getaway is a step below that but still good. PJ has a 9/10 perfect record with openers and this is the one total black mark because besides sounding bad (IMO) it doesn't even set the tone for the right album because the strengths of Binaural are nothing like this song.

Breakerfall is better than Once, Life Wasted, Gonna See My Friend and Getaway. I'd even entertain an argument that it's better than Sometimes, too.

I disagree on many levels, as I think it's a worse song than all of those, but even if you liked it better than GSMF and Getaway as a song (Better than Once? Really?) it doesnt work as an intro to Binaural because Binaural does not sound like this song after the first 3 songs which are very out of place on the album.

Who says all of an album has to sound like its opening tracks?

The opening track is essentially setting the tone of the album, it has an important role to fill to make the album sound like a cohesive work. Which Binaural does not.

theplatypus wrote:

mikejasond wrote:That's because Lukin is the song that Breakerfall is desperately wanting to be but isn't.

This is completely wrong. "Lukin" is modeled after early hardcore punk, "Breakerfall" is a lot closer to a Pete Townshend rave-up. They're aiming for totally different things, and land successfully on each.

Im not saying they are supposed to accomplish the same thing, Im just saying Breakerfall sounds very awkward like Eddie, Matt, Stone, Jeff, are all playing different songs or something. If they made it move a little more it would sound better. If Jack Irons was playing the song, it would sound better.