Red Mosquito

Coach wrote:

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:LOL

so which one is it, the media is fabricating the downfall or their critical reception is better now?

you apologists need to get your story straight

different apologists, different stories

Stip, what do you think of R.E.M.'s "The Apologist?" It's now in my head.

cutuphalfdead wrote:

Coach wrote:

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:LOL

so which one is it, the media is fabricating the downfall or their critical reception is better now?

you apologists need to get your story straight

different apologists, different stories

Stip, what do you think of R.E.M.'s "The Apologist?" It's now in my head.

Its on Up so he probably hates it.

Lament wrote:

stip wrote:Shouldn't you be comparing those songs you listed to The End, Parachutes, Just Breathe, Man of the Hour, Come Back, Speed of Sound, etc?

Plus pearl jam always had songs like Supersonic. That's not new. Remember Mankind?

I didn't compare those songs to The End/Parachutes/Man of the Hour/etc. because the OP's original sentiment (which I now see was in reference to live performances and not studio output) appeared to be that "naysayers" biggest problem was too high of a value on old, manic material and a dismissal of current, mature material. I used those sets of songs because I actually think that's fundamentally incorrect; the majority of "naysayers" place the highest premium on pre-2003 mature material and the lowest on post-2003 manic material. The most derided post-2003 material has always seemed to be the "hey look, we still rock!" stuff, not stuff like Man of the Hour or Parachutes or The End. Is anyone complaining that they don't "rock" anymore? It seems to me like "naysayers" would probably prefer the band put less of a premium on trying to prove they can still "rock."

To compare Immortality/Off He Goes/All Those Yesterdays/etc. to The End/Parachutes/Just Breathe would be appropriate if it seemed the OP's original sentiment appeared to be about the quality of material from pre-2003 vs. post-2003, but it appeared to be about the style of the music preferred by "naysayers," and therefore seemed to be a very backward assessment of what "naysayers" expected stylistically from this band. While "naysayers" might raise flags to the actual quality of a song like Just Breathe or Come Back or The End, and I don't think any of them are either surprised that the band is making music that sounds like those songs or wishes that they wouldn't or thinks that they could be improved if they rocked more. As I pointed out in my second post, I think most "naysayers" would actually say with regards to almost any album that the best moments are usually the more mature pieces and the most derided/dismissed at the manic, rocking numbers. This is a band who's mature side was embraced pretty early on, dating back to stuff like Oceans/Indifference/Nothingman/Immortality/etc.

stip wrote:Still, the stuff you flagged are some of their weakest songs in the past decade, and hardly emblematic of the good 'we can still rock' songs. They're the first decade equivalent of soon forget or I'm open.

stip wrote:

Coach wrote:

stip wrote:

Heathen wrote:LOL

so which one is it, the media is fabricating the downfall or their critical reception is better now?

you apologists need to get your story straight

different apologists, different stories

Stip, what do you think of R.E.M.'s "The Apologist?" It's now in my head.

it may very well be the REM song I like the least.

My wife and I danced to at my most beautiful at our wedding, and when we would practice it I'd always hear the first 10 seconds of the apologist before I went over to stop the song.

I already didn't like it, but that made it worse.

You?

Lament wrote:

stip wrote:Still, the stuff you flagged are some of their weakest songs in the past decade, and hardly emblematic of the good 'we can still rock' songs. They're the first decade equivalent of soon forget or I'm open.

Big Wave always struck me as a retread of Do The Evolution. I'm not sure what I think Supersonic or Ole descend from. I don't know that I think songs like that have a true precedent in the PJ catalog. Song like Whipping and Blood are too self-righteous to compare them to, and Lukin at least has a narrative. Even Soon Forget and I'm Open have more of a narrative than Supersonic or Ole. Maybe All Night, but even that has what at the time would have been covering some new ground for them (specifically all of the vocal layering in the latter part of the song).

You know what, I think your comparison may actually be better than I thought. Pre-2003 Pearl Jam probably felt a need to show depth for sake the sake of depth at times, and that probably manifested itself in the Soon Forgets and I'm Opens of the catalog. Post-2003 Pearl Jam would probably have the opposite insecurity and feel the need "rock for the sake of rocking," hence the Supersonics and Oles. So I can get on board with linking those songs to a certain extent.

stip wrote:

Lament wrote:

stip wrote:Still, the stuff you flagged are some of their weakest songs in the past decade, and hardly emblematic of the good 'we can still rock' songs. They're the first decade equivalent of soon forget or I'm open.

Big Wave always struck me as a retread of Do The Evolution. I'm not sure what I think Supersonic or Ole descend from. I don't know that I think songs like that have a true precedent in the PJ catalog. Song like Whipping and Blood are too self-righteous to compare them to, and Lukin at least has a narrative. Even Soon Forget and I'm Open have more of a narrative than Supersonic or Ole. Maybe All Night, but even that has what at the time would have been covering some new ground for them (specifically all of the vocal layering in the latter part of the song).

You know what, I think your comparison may actually be better than I thought. Pre-2003 Pearl Jam probably felt a need to show depth for sake the sake of depth at times, and that probably manifested itself in the Soon Forgets and I'm Opens of the catalog. Post-2003 Pearl Jam would probably have the opposite insecurity and feel the need "rock for the sake of rocking," hence the Supersonics and Oles. So I can get on board with linking those songs to a certain extent.

You, Leatherman, and Mankind all seem like they anticipate Supersonic or Ole or Big Wave (which other than the fact that they are enviornmentalish I don't think has much in common with DTE). Even all night, I suppose, although that song is vastly superior to the rest. So those songs dont' feel new to me, although I don't know why they feel the need to include big wave or supersonic on a record (I felt that way about Mankind too). Ole, to be fair, is a one off track (assuming it is not on the album).

So I guess I don't see that pearl jam is including songs that show off their ability to rock. If that was the point than a song like GSMF certainly demonstrates that more than Supersonic. For some baffling reason they want those songs there.

You could make the case, obviously, that pearl jam shouldn't be writing loud and aggressive songs anymore because they can't pull them off (I disagree, but that's irrelevant). But that's a much bigger net than Ole and Supersonic. Then you're pulling in GSMF, Got Some, Life Wasted, Comatose, WWS, etc. And those are some excellent songs.

stip wrote:A song like GSMF has the ragged grit that I think makes these contemporary fast songs compelling, and deals with more 'serious' subject matter. Supersonic and Ole have that glossy feel to them (that I really don't like), which is how I'm distinguishing (personally) those different types of fast songs. It is what makes Brain of J different from Leatherman or Grievance different from Hitchhiker

darth_vedder wrote:If PJ is gonna "rock" I'd rather them rock more like "Insignificance" than "Ole". I really liked the direction they were on with Binaural. RA was a let down for me, although I like it more with age. S/T is alright, and has some strong songs, but I don't really love it. It, and BS could make one really good album.

darth_vedder wrote:S/T...and BS could make one really good album.

stip wrote:Gonna See My Friend
Life Wasted
Got Some
Word Wide Suicide
Comatose
The Fixer
Johnny Guitar
Just Breathe
Severed Hand
Marker in the Sand
Parachutes
Force of Nature
Army Reserve
Come Back
Wasted Reprise
The End


Conceptually I couldn't tell you much about this album but I think it would sound great

bodysnatcher wrote:i made a mix of my favorite songs from those two albums, and it turned out to be shorter than Backspacer