Red Mosquito

I often don’t agree with Slate’s political analysis, but found this to be a pretty compelling case.


“Bernie is the opponent Trump wants”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... alism.html

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BurtReynolds wrote:

swan wrote:I often don’t agree with Slate’s political analysis, but found this to be a pretty compelling case.


“Bernie is the opponent Trump wants”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... alism.html

"Trump is running on the economy, but he knows many voters don’t like him. He needs to give those voters something to fear about the other party. That’s where socialism comes in. Trump uses that word at every rally, hoping to make Democrats look radical and scary. Sen. Elizabeth Warren agrees with many of Sanders’ ideas, but she doesn’t call them socialism. Sanders does. He plays right into Trump’s hands."

This is a fundamentally mistaken way of looking at it. The democratic nominee will gain nothing by constantly denying they're a socialist. The Republicans will call whoever wins a socialist, but only Sanders will own it. This is how you neutralize your opponent, not trying to defend yourself against the label. Donald "I'm a nationalist" Trump understands this. People like Warren or Biden do not.

You can't see this stuff if you only look at polls.

This. A large part of the country is so economically ignorant they now think socialism is just free healthcare and college, label won’t hurt Bernie

Bi_3 wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

swan wrote:I often don’t agree with Slate’s political analysis, but found this to be a pretty compelling case.


“Bernie is the opponent Trump wants”
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/202 ... alism.html

"Trump is running on the economy, but he knows many voters don’t like him. He needs to give those voters something to fear about the other party. That’s where socialism comes in. Trump uses that word at every rally, hoping to make Democrats look radical and scary. Sen. Elizabeth Warren agrees with many of Sanders’ ideas, but she doesn’t call them socialism. Sanders does. He plays right into Trump’s hands."

This is a fundamentally mistaken way of looking at it. The democratic nominee will gain nothing by constantly denying they're a socialist. The Republicans will call whoever wins a socialist, but only Sanders will own it. This is how you neutralize your opponent, not trying to defend yourself against the label. Donald "I'm a nationalist" Trump understands this. People like Warren or Biden do not.

You can't see this stuff if you only look at polls.

This. A large part of the country is so economically ignorant they now think socialism is just free healthcare and college, label won’t hurt Bernie

An alternate theory is that the actual, real life socialist boogeyman (USSR) dissolved 30 years ago. Combine that with the fact that any of these candidates will be labelled socialist anyway (as were Hillary & Obama ), and you can see how that argument loses its power. Socialist is just synonymous with "the left" now. Claim that it's ignorance all you want, but in a connected world people seem to understand that there are many other "free" capitalist democracies out there that use socialist policies to try to help balance out capitalism. As we have always done here in the US. If you think of yourself as a resident of your town, you see that there is a collective tax structure that serves the collective by providing collective goods & services to the people of that town (schools, police & fire, public works...). If that's not a socialist structure within the capitalist framework, then I don't know what is. Makes little sense to pit these two things against each other, when in reality they work in tandem.

Rob wrote:An alternate theory is that the actual, real life socialist boogeyman (USSR) dissolved 30 years ago.

One of the features that I think strongly defines the Millennial generation from their predecessors is that they have no real memory of the Cold War, hence they are less likely to see socialism as a boogeyman like those older had to deal with.

Green Habit wrote:

Rob wrote:An alternate theory is that the actual, real life socialist boogeyman (USSR) dissolved 30 years ago.

One of the features that I think strongly defines the Millennial generation from their predecessors is that they have no real memory of the Cold War, hence they are less likely to see socialism as a boogeyman like those older had to deal with.

I think this is true as well, but people often use this argument to imply that younger people are ignorant. If only they knew... But it is in fact today's older generation who were young when they were relentlessly taught to fear socialism, because of what was going on in the Soviet Union. I often wonder how much this fear is responsible for an American government that struggles to get big things done and adequately serve its people.

I chose "not supporting the democratic party." If the question was about whom I'm supporting in the primary, I would have a different answer. Since I don't live in a swing state, I always vote 3rd party in the presidential vote.

In my state's primary ... I'll probably vote Yang because I like him and don't think he can win. I like the campaign he's run and I'd like to see more of it. But I'd prefer he had some experience in politics before taking the white house, so I'd really rather someone else win.

I'm fine with Biden, Pete, or Klobuchar. I'd even be okay with Sanders. While I don't support his most ambitious ideas, I don't think they have enough support and he doesn't have the political gravitas to get them passed. At worst, he'll be a lame duck president who doesn't get us involved in any stupid wars or do anything crazy I don't have to worry about. At this point, I'm settling for "not crazy."

tragabigzanda wrote:

Dscans wrote:I chose "not supporting the democratic party." If the question was about whom I'm supporting in the primary, I would have a different answer. Since I don't live in a swing state, I always vote 3rd party in the presidential vote.

In my state's primary ... I'll probably vote Yang because I like him and don't think he can win. I like the campaign he's run and I'd like to see more of it. But I'd prefer he had some experience in politics before taking the white house, so I'd really rather someone else win.

I'm fine with Biden, Pete, or Klobuchar. I'd even be okay with Sanders. While I don't support his most ambitious ideas, I don't think they have enough support and he doesn't have the political gravitas to get them passed. At worst, he'll be a lame duck president who doesn't get us involved in any stupid wars or do anything crazy I don't have to worry about. At this point, I'm settling for "not crazy."

I appreciate your level of thinking here. I'm similarly calculating with my votes in MT, because I can be.

Not sure what state you're in and what sort of elections are held, but might I suggest voting for moderate Republicans -- at least at the state level -- if your elections system allows you to do so? Could be far more impactful than a Yang vote.

I'm in Mass. I'm unenrolled, so I can vote for either ticket. I'll have to see who's running but Republicans in our state tend to be pretty moderate anyway.

As I thought, the results of this fascinated me. Pearl Jam fans obviously have skewed left for a long time, but they're collectively split between Warren and Sanders, it seems. Very little love for any other Democrat, but since there's even less love for the Republicans I'm guessing almost all the respondents would vote for that "lesser" Democrat in their minds.

Since the Iowa caucus is today, I'll unsticky this now. Thanks for participating.

Rob wrote:Bloomberg is just a venting outlet for some of you. He’s not even on the ballot in early states. It’s not a real challenge. He’s a space for people to talk while it’s sorted out. Which is fine. He’s not a serious candidate.

For the first time in the 2020 Democratic primary, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders took the lead in a national Quinnipiac University poll, overtaking former Vice President Joe Biden, just after the Iowa caucuses and one day ahead of Tuesday's New Hampshire primary.

Sanders received 25% support among Democrats and Democratic-leaning independents, with Biden at 17%. Former New York City Mayor Mike Bloomberg saw a surge in support with 15%, followed by Massachusetts Sen. Elizabeth Warren with 14%, former South Bend, Indiana, mayor Pete Buttigieg at 10% and Minnesota Sen. Amy Klobuchar at 4%.

https://amp.usatoday.com/amp/4715518002

Ooooohhhhhhh BethBloomy, Ooooooooooohhhhh BethBloomy, Ooooooohhhhhhhh BethBloomy, OoooooOooOooooohhhhh BethBloomy

Tonight ought to be interesting.

If Warren drops out before Super Tuesday I will need a new candidate to vote for and fall back into undecided. Don’t even know so much which way I am leaning except that I am pretty sure I am not voting for Biden.

liebzz wrote:Tonight ought to be interesting.

If Warren drops out before Super Tuesday I will need a new candidate to vote for and fall back into undecided. Don’t even know so much which way I am leaning except that I am pretty sure I am not voting for Biden.

We have to lose 5 candidates before I vote Biden.

Warren
Klobuchar
Buttigieg
Sanders
Yang
Biden
Bloomberg
Steyer

Our election is March 3rd, but I can start voting on Thursday. Should I wait in case my candidate drops out?

B wrote:Our election is March 3rd, but I can start voting on Thursday. Should I wait in case my candidate drops out?

That's really good thinking.

B wrote:Our election is March 3rd, but I can start voting on Thursday. Should I wait in case my candidate drops out?

i have this issue too that i have to research...ours in march 3 but we are leaving for 3 months starting feb 22..do i need to mail it from california or can it be mailed from washington state? no idea

doug rr wrote:

B wrote:Our election is March 3rd, but I can start voting on Thursday. Should I wait in case my candidate drops out?

i have this issue too that i have to research...ours in march 3 but we are leaving for 3 months starting feb 22..do i need to mail it from california or can it be mailed from washington state? no idea

No way I'd add "dragging an absentee ballot along" to my travel to-do list. Mail it before you leave. All the other stuff on the ballot isn't going to change, and you won't have THAT big of an impact on the primary.

That was funny.

Dude, that kid looks just like him. I'm dropping him under Yang and Biden now.