Red Mosquito

Jorge wrote:These guys do it really well

You are giving examples now?

Do Screaming Trees qualify? Pretty sure they used a lot of overdubs in the studio, though, and I'm not super familiar with their live output.

Phish?
Pink Floyd? I think they had some tours with only Gilmour on guitar.

Captain Termite wrote:Phish?

I was going to say this; Jorge is a big fan.

Ello Sailor wrote:Do Screaming Trees qualify? Pretty sure they used a lot of overdubs in the studio, though, and I'm not super familiar with their live output.

Yeah, they didnt have a second guitar until Josh Homme played with them in 1996.

Simple Torture wrote:

Captain Termite wrote:Phish?

I was going to say this; Jorge is a big fan.

Although TBF they fill a lot of the space that a backup guitar might fill with keyboards.

VinylGuy wrote:

Ello Sailor wrote:Basically the same as RATM innit.

yeah, but they also had more midtempo songs and ballads, i feel they really nailed it with Audioslave. I think Timmy C spoke about it, and said that Cornell was fundamental on teaching him how to do it.

Honestly I thought Audioslave did this really poorly; songs like "Like a Stone" really want for fullness during their lead sections. As if Cornell would have any expertise on the topic anyway, Soundgarden being an extremely strong dual-guitar outfit.

I actually think the degree to which is comes off well has to do with the characteristics of the guitar lead as much as what the other instruments are doing to fill the space. When I listen to Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc., I don't find myself really missing the lack of harmonic accompaniment during solo sections, and while this doesn't create the same depth of sound that a second guitar does, players at a certain level can create their own harmonic framework within the space of a solo; Hendrix's intro to "Little Wing," for example, is every bit as harmonically dynamic as what many other bands are capable of doing with two guitars. This also may have to do with these artists having songs that are more riff- rather than chord-driven, so the guitarist's role shift between verse and solo space is less dramatic; it feels less like one person trying to play two parts at once, but rather modifying the one part that exists so that it is dynamic enough to serve both purposes.

By comparison, the solos to songs like "Scar Tissue," "Like a Stone," etc., are just handfuls of carefully-chosen notes, and really the only meaning they have in the music at all is their direct relationship to the chords. The parts themselves are relatively undistinguished, and could technically fit in any number of contexts depending on the harmonic support, and when there isn't any (or isn't enough), the parts just feel as dull as they are on their own merits.

Listening to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" from Wishkah now and feeling no loss of dynamic during the solo section. Not sure what it is -- maybe a pedal effect or something?

Exact opposite reaction to Like A Stone, im actually glad they left it like that. It doesnt need anything more.

Simple Torture wrote:

Captain Termite wrote:Phish?

I was going to say this; Jorge is a big fan.

I don't think I have ever listened to Phish even once in my entire life.

I have the vague notion that they are a jam band and that's it

Jorge wrote:

Simple Torture wrote:

Captain Termite wrote:Phish?

I was going to say this; Jorge is a big fan.

I don't think I have ever listened to Phish even once in my entire life.

I have the vague notion that they are a jam band and that's it

I recall you having strong feelings about Phish: http://forums.theskyiscrape.com/viewtop ... 69#p483969

IIRC that was Apples Vanguard

Kevin Davis wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

Ello Sailor wrote:Basically the same as RATM innit.

yeah, but they also had more midtempo songs and ballads, i feel they really nailed it with Audioslave. I think Timmy C spoke about it, and said that Cornell was fundamental on teaching him how to do it.

Honestly I thought Audioslave did this really poorly; songs like "Like a Stone" really want for fullness during their lead sections. As if Cornell would have any expertise on the topic anyway, Soundgarden being an extremely strong dual-guitar outfit.

I actually think the degree to which is comes off well has to do with the characteristics of the guitar lead as much as what the other instruments are doing to fill the space. When I listen to Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc., I don't find myself really missing the lack of harmonic accompaniment during solo sections, and while this doesn't create the same depth of sound that a second guitar does, players at a certain level can create their own harmonic framework within the space of a solo; Hendrix's intro to "Little Wing," for example, is every bit as harmonically dynamic as what many other bands are capable of doing with two guitars. This also may have to do with these artists having songs that are more riff- rather than chord-driven, so the guitarist's role shift between verse and solo space is less dramatic; it feels less like one person trying to play two parts at once, but rather modifying the one part that exists so that it is dynamic enough to serve both purposes.

By comparison, the solos to songs like "Scar Tissue," "Like a Stone," etc., are just handfuls of carefully-chosen notes, and really the only meaning they have in the music at all is their direct relationship to the chords. The parts themselves are relatively undistinguished, and could technically fit in any number of contexts depending on the harmonic support, and when there isn't any (or isn't enough), the parts just feel as dull as they are on their own merits.

Listening to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" from Wishkah now and feeling no loss of dynamic during the solo section. Not sure what it is -- maybe a pedal effect or something?

Cobain could get away with it because every solo is just the melody of the song/vocal.

Captain Termite wrote:Gov't Mule

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Didn't Bono used to play guitar during concerts?

Danny Lewis the keyboard player plays guitar some too

ZZ Top

macphisto wrote:

Captain Termite wrote:Didn't Bono used to play guitar during concerts?

He holds one sometimes, but I don't think it's plugged in.

It's plugged in, but it's low in the mix.

tattooedeverything wrote:

macphisto wrote:

Captain Termite wrote:Didn't Bono used to play guitar during concerts?

He holds one sometimes, but I don't think it's plugged in.

It's plugged in, but it's low in the mix.

I know that. I was just trying to be cute.

macphisto wrote:

tattooedeverything wrote:

macphisto wrote:

Captain Termite wrote:Didn't Bono used to play guitar during concerts?

He holds one sometimes, but I don't think it's plugged in.

It's plugged in, but it's low in the mix.

I know that. I was just trying to be cute.

Oh, sorry.

Kevin Davis wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

Ello Sailor wrote:Basically the same as RATM innit.

yeah, but they also had more midtempo songs and ballads, i feel they really nailed it with Audioslave. I think Timmy C spoke about it, and said that Cornell was fundamental on teaching him how to do it.

Honestly I thought Audioslave did this really poorly; songs like "Like a Stone" really want for fullness during their lead sections. As if Cornell would have any expertise on the topic anyway, Soundgarden being an extremely strong dual-guitar outfit.

I actually think the degree to which is comes off well has to do with the characteristics of the guitar lead as much as what the other instruments are doing to fill the space. When I listen to Zeppelin, Hendrix, etc., I don't find myself really missing the lack of harmonic accompaniment during solo sections, and while this doesn't create the same depth of sound that a second guitar does, players at a certain level can create their own harmonic framework within the space of a solo; Hendrix's intro to "Little Wing," for example, is every bit as harmonically dynamic as what many other bands are capable of doing with two guitars. This also may have to do with these artists having songs that are more riff- rather than chord-driven, so the guitarist's role shift between verse and solo space is less dramatic; it feels less like one person trying to play two parts at once, but rather modifying the one part that exists so that it is dynamic enough to serve both purposes.

By comparison, the solos to songs like "Scar Tissue," "Like a Stone," etc., are just handfuls of carefully-chosen notes, and really the only meaning they have in the music at all is their direct relationship to the chords. The parts themselves are relatively undistinguished, and could technically fit in any number of contexts depending on the harmonic support, and when there isn't any (or isn't enough), the parts just feel as dull as they are on their own merits.

Listening to "Smells Like Teen Spirit" from Wishkah now and feeling no loss of dynamic during the solo section. Not sure what it is -- maybe a pedal effect or something?

I really wanted to jump in and say "It's Pat Smear!" But of course that performance (and most of that album) are pre-Smear.

tattooedeverything wrote:

macphisto wrote:

tattooedeverything wrote:

macphisto wrote:

Captain Termite wrote:Didn't Bono used to play guitar during concerts?

He holds one sometimes, but I don't think it's plugged in.

It's plugged in, but it's low in the mix.

I know that. I was just trying to be cute.

Oh, sorry.

Day after I first saw Pearl Jam in Minneapolis in 98, we were driving home with the radio on and the hosts started discussing the show. There was much debate about whether or not Ed really played guitar on Betterman, or was just faking it "like Bono does."

I don't recall what conclusion they reached.