Red Mosquito

Yeah, before I heard the finished product, my hopes for Backspacer were pretty high based on what they claimed to be going for. It just failed miserably for me in terms of the actual execution.

McParadigm wrote:Oh, I don't know. I like the idea of a short, less moody Pearl Jam album in theory. I think it might have played out better if it wasnt the only new music we got 2006-2013.

I don't, and I think the new album proves that they you can do it, just don't go too far one way. Backspacer took it too far.

By that I mean the songs themselves, not the entire album. Any of the rockier tracks from Backspacer could have been vastly improved by more meaningful or harsh lyrics. Having said that they aren't really musically competitive with the LB tracks anyway

fishbob wrote:By that I mean the songs themselves, not the entire album. Any of the rockier tracks from Backspacer could have been vastly improved by more meaningful or harsh lyrics. Having said that they aren't really musically competitive with the LB tracks anyway

that kind of undercuts the point of the exercise.


I'm going to listen to backspacer on my way to work today. First time since lightning bolt

Lament wrote:

fishbob wrote:I've always thought Vitalogy was the most overrated PJ album by far

In some other thread last week or so (I can't remember which one) I tried to make the case that Vitalogy is actually the most underrated Pearl Jam album by far.

I agree and would like to subscribe to your newsletter

Getaway better than Last Exit?

That's moronic.

If you do it straight up as tracks 1-12 then it's still 11-1 in Vitalogy's favour.

Last Exit > Getaway
STBC > MYM
Not For You > My Fathers Son
Tremor Christ > Sirens
Nothingman > LB
Whippin > Infallible
Pendulum > Pry, To
Corduroy > SWhole
Bugs > LTRP
Satan's Bed > SBM
Betterman > Yellow Moon
Aye Davinta > FDays

Vitalogy is a great album. My no. 1 as it is for many others. However, this idea that not even a couple of songs on LB can match up to anything on it seems absurd to me. Yes, PJ were great back then and they aren't that great now. However, their present day output is still brilliant on occasion as evidenced by the best songs on LB.

If I were to consider Vitalogy just the sum of it's parts (i.e. the 14 tracks), then LB could give it a run for it's money. However, it makes sense to take out the 4 non-songs on Vitalogy (or group them together) and compare the rest. Vitalogy does come out on top fair and square but it's not the landslide people seem to think it is.

Infallible, Pendulum, Yellow Moon, Getaway and My Father's Son can hold their own against the Vitalogy tracks. The 'untouchables' on Vitalogy for me are Corduroy, Not For You, STBC, Immortality, Nothingman and Better Man. Everything else is fair game.

Infallible is a top ten PJ song for me and only the aforementioned Vitalogy songs (save Not For You and STBC) are clearly superior to it. NFY and STBC fall outside my top ten. The other four songs are definitely top ten and rank higher than Infallible or anything else on LB. Infallible though ranks higher than the other six.

A track by track comparison for me would look something like this:

Getaway = Last Exit (Can't split them; both great.)

MYM < STBC (STBC is the blueprint for MYM and just a better song, though MYM is pretty good.)

MFS < Not For You (Both great songs but NFY is better.)

Sirens < Better Man (Sirens is very good but Better Man is one of their best.)

LB < Corduroy (Corduroy is sublime while LB is just very good.)

Infallible > Tremor Christ (Might be heresy but not even a contest for me. That's not to say TC isn't very good but Infallible is epic.)

Pendulum < Immortality (This is very close but I favour Immortality. Pendulum isn't long enough for my liking.)

Swallowed Whole > Whipping (My least favourite on Vitalogy. When I think of a song killed by a bad chorus, this is it.)

LTRP > Aye Davanita/Pry, To/Stupid Mop (These experimental 'non-songs' do nothing for me. If it was a lesser album, it would have suffered greatly because of them. Even if I tell myself PJ put this crap on the album knowingly, it doesn't make it less crappy. I'd rather take a proper song like LTRP which is an experiment I can actually enjoy.)

SBM = Satan's Bed (I can't decide which of these two quirky ones I prefer.)

Yellow Moon < Nothingman (Close but Nothingman is just too good.)

Future Days = Bugs (I could live without either of them to be honest.)

Vitalogy- 6
Lightning Bolt - 3
Tied- 3

I compared tracks which I felt served a similar purpose on the albums (or close to it). I tried not to pit the best LB songs against the weakest Vitalogy songs or vice versa so as to skew the comparison either way. This is an entirely subjective exercise and I came up with the same result as most of you. However, I tried to keep my feelings about Vitalogy out of it. Those feelings developed over years and years and cannot factor in if I want a fair comparison.

I'm lovin the fearlessness of the thread starter, good on ya. I'm a Vitalogy loyalist, but why not try to demystify something? Fuck it, you know? Sometimes you look for the spine tingling moments and I was coming off of some of those when I was on the Vs ride as a teenager, but Vitalogy came and made me hear music a little differently, a little more cerebrally. LB is providing a couple of near-spine tingles for me, but there's also a few parts that are hitting me in the brain lyrically. Also a few parts that are puzzling me, like Vitalogy did. Not saying they are comparable at this point, but it's worth letting it sink in your brain. I admire the dude's guts.

Kudos to the thread starter. There's nothing wrong about voicing an opinion which contradicts that of the majority. I don't share it but I don't dismiss it either. It's not incomprehensible that someone could think that way.

Release_Me wrote:Kudos to the thread starter. There's nothing wrong about voicing an opinion which contradicts that of the majority. I don't share it but I don't dismiss it either. It's not incomprehensible that someone could think that way.

By thinking it's infallible, this board is tempting fate instead.

Truly, the bravest.

Yeah, but there's a reason Vitalogy has been mystified. It's because it's the birth of the PJ dark period, it's where PJ decided to go rogue, it has some of their weirdest stuff ever, and yet the 10 actual songs on the album are all brilliant. I mean, come on people: Last Exit > Spin the Black Circle > Not For You > Tremor Christ > Nothingman > Whipping > Pry, To > Corduroy > Bugs > Satan's Bed > Better Man > Aye Davanita > Immortality > Stupid Mop.

Even the weird experiments work great, serving as bridges/intros to some of the most memorable and brilliant songs in the entire catalog. Even "Stupid Mop", for how ridiculous and occasionally overwrought it is, has a KILLER drum beat and hypnotic guitar work. I would love to see them jam on that some show just to do it (it's never going to happen though).

This shouldn't even be a discussion. Plus, I remember how a lot of you were washing Backspacer's balls right when it came out. You need to give an album time before you can even have a discussion like this. I know I really didn't get No Code for at least 6-8 months when it came out, and I only got Binaural after listening to like 50 of the 2000 boots.

Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

I think only the original poster said LB was better. But the fact that some songs on L-bolt COULD be better isn't absurd. There are certainly a few songs on L-bolt I prefer more than a few songs on Vitalogy. Even on a record as amazing as vitalogy (which I am prepared to argue is not just the greatest pearl jam album of all time, but the best album of all time period) there are still some songs that are merely very good. And L-bolt has a few songs that are great

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

stip wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Thejambi wrote:Can someone Pm me the version of Pendulum that sounds remotely as phenomenal as Immortality?

Or the coda of "Not For You". Or the intro to "Better Man".

oh come on. Immortality, fine, but I would rather have pendulum on a record than a minute of noodling at the end of NFY or that little linking piece at the start of betterman

Yeah I don't know about all that Matt. pendulum is a good song in its own right. it's just not an immortality.

maybe the better way to think about these questions is (controlling for differences in sound, etc) are there songs on Lightning Bolt that are good enough to be on vitalogy.

And for me at least the answer is definitely. Anything as good as Corduroy or Immortality? of course not. But that's a criticism I'd also lay at the feet of just about every record.

To each their opinion, but the fact is: Vitalogy is their best album and pretty much untouchable.