Red Mosquito

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 5:37 am**

theplatypus wrote:
durdencommatyler wrote:No spoilers, but would you guys recommend this movie to someone who liked the first two?
Definitely, this was my favorite of the three.

Mine too.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 7:05 am**

Hard to say how it compares to the first one, as that one's old hat and this is still shiny new, but it easily beats the second. I actually liked it better than the Avengers movie, though that's not saying much seeing as how I walked out of that and wouldn't even consider a peepee pitstop for this one.

Regardless, I think this movie took each of those things that the Marvel movies have done best, and balanced them perfectly. The relationships, the humor, the over the top flash...it delivered each one in very, very calculated amounts. More importantly, it never let one really overpower the others for any given scene, until right at the end. In fact, the people involved (70% of California, according to the credits) seemed so cognizant of the importance of that mix that any time one threatened to become too much, the others were immediately called in to provide some relief or to maintain tone.

Thankfully, they also took the things that the Marvel movies have frequently been terrible at, and totally avoided being terrible at them. This might be the only one of the bunch besides Thor that perfectly matched its villain's scope, power, and danger level to its overall intentions. There weren't any of the problems that have plagued the conflict source of the previous movies. Most of those have typically suffered one of the following:

1. Anybody could beat this wet weeping pussy. See: the very silly treatment of the Red Skull.
2. "We'll try way too hard to sell this guy early on, fucking up the tone of the entire movie, and then not sell him at all for the rest of the film." Iron Man 2.
3. Look, just pretend that Loki doesn't come across like a really dramatic, underwashed cosplayer-slash-tentacle porn enthusiast. Avengers movie only.
4. Jeffery Lebowski in a tank with legs. Not actually a problem, now that I think of it. Not actually a problem at all.

Really, Marvel getting the villain right is like if Nolan stopped pile continuity errors on top of each other, or if the next Star Trek didn't play Spock off as a sulking and smarmy paperwork junky. It's literally taking the brand's biggest weakness and fixing it completely.

Are there still problems? Yeah, sure. There always are. And some of the ones here would really irritate me in a more serious film. But that's part of why that very controlled manipulation of tone is so valuable...a movie that opens with the I'm Blue song (I'm a beet on a diet? I've never actually bothered to find out) can get away with shit that something like Dark Knight Rises never could, if it can maintain that cheek while engaging you emotionally. And while Dark Knight Rises was 100% problem-free...

Spoiler: show

...this one is way more successful at being what it's trying to be, which is great summer movie fun.

I've come to the conclusion that superhero movies would be very well served by redefining their ambitions and structure, and letting go of the need for a third act change of 'epicality.' Every damn time, that seems to be where they fuck it up. Finding a new way to engage the third act without losing the sense of a climax would save so many of the turkeys out there. But this one is different. The third act CGI jackoff-fest is totally not a problem, because it never let itself get so serious that the cornballer elements involved ruin it and it never got so silly that the tension is absent.

Pretty good start to the summer, I must say.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 3:01 pm**

^^ I completely agree with everything posted above.

It really is something to watch a film and see that it has corrected pretty much everything that was wrong in the previous instalment. This one is by far the best of the three in my opinion.

Perfect mix of humour, drama, character development, And balls to the wall action. The final set piece is ridiculously entertaining to watch.

Iron Man 3 and Thor might just be my favourite of the Marvel movies.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 8:33 pm**

i want to see it again, that´s how good this one was. All credits to Shane Black i guess.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 8:38 pm**

Spoiler: show: The only real blunder, to me, was the end sequence. "Oh this piece of shrapnel that's been inches from killing me for several years? The one my arc reactor chestpiece has been keeping me safe from, thereby itself coming close to killing me by poisoning my blood and forcing me to create a new chemical element (you know, one of the biggest plot elements of the previous movie)? Just a small surgical procedure. 5 seconds of exposition. Also, uh, we fixed Pepper. No biggie." It needed a bit more work, I felt.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 9:05 pm**

Why didn't he just issue the "kill all bad guys" protocol early on? Fucking terrible. No not terrible. Just lazy and pointless and tries to outspectacle the Avengers and fails.

"Oh hey I forgot i had an army in my basement." Why did i sit through the first hour of this movie? i was bored. At least let war machine do something.

Meh. YES I HATE EVERYTHING NOW.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 9:06 pm**

theplatypus wrote:
Spoiler: show
The only real blunder, to me, was the end sequence. "Oh this piece of shrapnel that's been inches from killing me for several years? The one my arc reactor chestpiece has been keeping me safe from, thereby itself coming close to killing me by poisoning my blood and forcing me to create a new chemical element (you know, one of the biggest plot elements of the previous movie)? Just a small surgical procedure. 5 seconds of exposition. Also, uh, we fixed Pepper. No biggie." It needed a bit more work, I felt.

Spoiler: show: The important thing is that Pepper is magicured, Tony has a bunch of extra meat lying around to slap in his chest hole, the bullied boy gets a bunch of dangerous toys in lieau of a father figure, and the girl with one leg never ever gets a new leg. Perfect ending.

Commendations all around.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 9:10 pm**

Also, how tits is it that this is what's in the white house?

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 9:37 pm**

honestly i haven't seen it. i just wait for McP to post and then disagree with him.

no for real this time. honestly. I just cant deal with this deus ex machina bullshit anymore. How can you have any drama when the writers can just break the rules to get the hero out of a jam anytime they want? its just false. Here, its especially stupid, as its available the whole time (unless some ridiculous shit like the power being out happens or something, which is even worse). No matter how fantastic the setting, these worlds have rules.

The silly laser scene in part 2 was pretty bad (and remember, you can only use it once! for eternity it seems, as it doesnt show up at all in 3), and its repeated here a half dozen times.

the character doesn't seem to change or develop in any way that makes this movie matter. Wasnt he an alcoholic once? oh I guess he just isn't now. that might have been interesting to explore. I don't know, something. the best of these movies generally work because the main character, no matter how powerful, has some personal flaw to overcome or realization to make. Its absent here. He's just a guy who gets helped out by writers when he gets in trouble.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 9:41 pm**

BurtReynolds wrote:Why didn't he just issue the "kill all bad guys" protocol early on? Fucking terrible. No not terrible. Just lazy and pointless and tries to outspectacle the Avengers and fails.

"Oh hey I forgot i had an army in my basement." Why did i sit through the first hour of this movie? i was bored. At least let war machine do something.

Meh. YES I HATE EVERYTHING NOW.

chill man...even comics have those issues too...

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 10:22 pm**

McParadigm wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that superhero movies would be very well served by redefining their ambitions and structure, and letting go of the need for a third act change of 'epicality.' Every damn time, that seems to be where they fuck it up. Finding a new way to engage the third act without losing the sense of a climax would save so many of the turkeys out there. But this one is different. The third act CGI jackoff-fest is totally not a problem, because it never let itself get so serious that the cornballer elements involved ruin it and it never got so silly that the tension is absent.

I think this one and Captain America suffer a great deal from awful 3rd acts (but at least Captain America had a great first 2/3rds i thought). The first 2/3rds of this one didnt blow me away. some cute one liners, a pointless but harmless enough brat, some wacky hijinks with his faulty armor, thats about it. I thought the villain was handled pretty well. I didnt have a problem with the Mandarin.

I dont see how the tone of this one was any different from The Avengers or any of the other movies, for that matter. Maybe a little goofier.I think they've all done a spectacular job with the tone of these movies, and I can't believe they've been as consistent as they have. But dumb is dumb, whether its Stark saving his most powerful toys for when its most dramatic, or BATMAN JUST PUNCHES BANE HARDER AFTER WATCHING COPS STROLL DOWN A GODDAMN NARROW ALLEYWAY IN A HAIL OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS FIRE. Well, nothing here is DKR dumb.

2.3 out of 5 stars!

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 10:57 pm**

BurtReynolds wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that superhero movies would be very well served by redefining their ambitions and structure, and letting go of the need for a third act change of 'epicality.' Every damn time, that seems to be where they fuck it up. Finding a new way to engage the third act without losing the sense of a climax would save so many of the turkeys out there. But this one is different. The third act CGI jackoff-fest is totally not a problem, because it never let itself get so serious that the cornballer elements involved ruin it and it never got so silly that the tension is absent.
I think this one and Captain America suffer a great deal from awful 3rd acts (but at least Captain America had a great first 2/3rds i thought). The first 2/3rds of this one didnt blow me away. some cute one liners, a pointless but harmless enough brat, some wacky hijinks with his faulty armor, thats about it. I thought the villain was handled pretty well. I didnt have a problem with the Mandarin.

I dont see how the tone of this one was any different from The Avengers or any of the other movies, for that matter. Maybe a little goofier.I think they've all done a spectacular job with the tone of these movies, and I can't believe they've been as consistent as they have. But dumb is dumb, whether its Stark saving his most powerful toys for when its most dramatic, or BATMAN JUST PUNCHES BANE HARDER AFTER WATCHING COPS STROLL DOWN A GODDAMN NARROW ALLEYWAY IN A HAIL OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS FIRE. Well, nothing here is DKR dumb.

2.3 out of 5 stars!

DKR was awesome.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 11:00 pm**

KurtLeon wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that superhero movies would be very well served by redefining their ambitions and structure, and letting go of the need for a third act change of 'epicality.' Every damn time, that seems to be where they fuck it up. Finding a new way to engage the third act without losing the sense of a climax would save so many of the turkeys out there. But this one is different. The third act CGI jackoff-fest is totally not a problem, because it never let itself get so serious that the cornballer elements involved ruin it and it never got so silly that the tension is absent.
I think this one and Captain America suffer a great deal from awful 3rd acts (but at least Captain America had a great first 2/3rds i thought). The first 2/3rds of this one didnt blow me away. some cute one liners, a pointless but harmless enough brat, some wacky hijinks with his faulty armor, thats about it. I thought the villain was handled pretty well. I didnt have a problem with the Mandarin.

I dont see how the tone of this one was any different from The Avengers or any of the other movies, for that matter. Maybe a little goofier.I think they've all done a spectacular job with the tone of these movies, and I can't believe they've been as consistent as they have. But dumb is dumb, whether its Stark saving his most powerful toys for when its most dramatic, or BATMAN JUST PUNCHES BANE HARDER AFTER WATCHING COPS STROLL DOWN A GODDAMN NARROW ALLEYWAY IN A HAIL OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS FIRE. Well, nothing here is DKR dumb.

2.3 out of 5 stars!
DKR was awesome.

you take that back!

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 11:04 pm**

BurtReynolds wrote:
KurtLeon wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that superhero movies would be very well served by redefining their ambitions and structure, and letting go of the need for a third act change of 'epicality.' Every damn time, that seems to be where they fuck it up. Finding a new way to engage the third act without losing the sense of a climax would save so many of the turkeys out there. But this one is different. The third act CGI jackoff-fest is totally not a problem, because it never let itself get so serious that the cornballer elements involved ruin it and it never got so silly that the tension is absent.
I think this one and Captain America suffer a great deal from awful 3rd acts (but at least Captain America had a great first 2/3rds i thought). The first 2/3rds of this one didnt blow me away. some cute one liners, a pointless but harmless enough brat, some wacky hijinks with his faulty armor, thats about it. I thought the villain was handled pretty well. I didnt have a problem with the Mandarin.

I dont see how the tone of this one was any different from The Avengers or any of the other movies, for that matter. Maybe a little goofier.I think they've all done a spectacular job with the tone of these movies, and I can't believe they've been as consistent as they have. But dumb is dumb, whether its Stark saving his most powerful toys for when its most dramatic, or BATMAN JUST PUNCHES BANE HARDER AFTER WATCHING COPS STROLL DOWN A GODDAMN NARROW ALLEYWAY IN A HAIL OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS FIRE. Well, nothing here is DKR dumb.

2.3 out of 5 stars!
DKR was awesome.
you take that back!

It really depends on what 3-5 minute segment you're referring to.

Posted: **Sat May 04, 2013 11:18 pm**

KurtLeon wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:
McParadigm wrote:
I've come to the conclusion that superhero movies would be very well served by redefining their ambitions and structure, and letting go of the need for a third act change of 'epicality.' Every damn time, that seems to be where they fuck it up. Finding a new way to engage the third act without losing the sense of a climax would save so many of the turkeys out there. But this one is different. The third act CGI jackoff-fest is totally not a problem, because it never let itself get so serious that the cornballer elements involved ruin it and it never got so silly that the tension is absent.
I think this one and Captain America suffer a great deal from awful 3rd acts (but at least Captain America had a great first 2/3rds i thought). The first 2/3rds of this one didnt blow me away. some cute one liners, a pointless but harmless enough brat, some wacky hijinks with his faulty armor, thats about it. I thought the villain was handled pretty well. I didnt have a problem with the Mandarin.

I dont see how the tone of this one was any different from The Avengers or any of the other movies, for that matter. Maybe a little goofier.I think they've all done a spectacular job with the tone of these movies, and I can't believe they've been as consistent as they have. But dumb is dumb, whether its Stark saving his most powerful toys for when its most dramatic, or BATMAN JUST PUNCHES BANE HARDER AFTER WATCHING COPS STROLL DOWN A GODDAMN NARROW ALLEYWAY IN A HAIL OF AUTOMATIC WEAPONS FIRE. Well, nothing here is DKR dumb.

2.3 out of 5 stars!
DKR was awesome.

kurt.

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2013 2:01 am**

BurtReynolds wrote:I dont see how the tone of this one was any different from The Avengers or any of the other movies, for that matter. Maybe a little goofier.I think they've all done a spectacular job with the tone of these movies, and I can't believe they've been as consistent as they have.

All summer movies balance adult and cartoon. They just do so to different degrees, depending on intention. Avengers made the exact same "we can deliver them in equal amounts" mistake that Independence Day or Armageddon did, and sucked just as hard. Captain America tried to be one in part A, and then another in part B, and as a result it failed to be anything but awful beyond the 40 minute mark. Iron Man 2 tried to take some of the cartoon of the first one and replace it with very adult weight, and screwed the whole thing up. It was almost (almost!) Captain America bad. Dark Knight Rises took an extremely adult setup and then tried to get away with waaaaay too much cartoon shortcutting. It was...well, I mean Captain America was truly and genuinely retarded after he quit selling bonds. It actually belonged in a group home setting, and making fun of it is more than a little bit crass. But Dark Knight Rises had moments that approached that level of....special.

The first Iron Man painted adult emotions (in not too complicated colors) on a very bright cartoon landscape. It worked. Thor graffiti'd the cartoon, but only where appropriate for its character, and did just as well. This movie used the two extremes like high quality ski poles, shifting easily and weightlessly between them without ever allowing a balance shift in either direction.

In general, the quality and tonal seizuring amongst the Marvel films has been so seismographically diarrhetic up to this point, even within individual films, that the use of the word 'consistent' is embarrassing for all involved. All they've really managed to do consistently is look like they shared a singular art department and act like it was cute to keep putting a "so geriatric that you might be taking advantage of him" Stan Lee in unnecessary cutaways.

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2013 3:13 am**

McParadigm wrote:
BurtReynolds wrote:I dont see how the tone of this one was any different from The Avengers or any of the other movies, for that matter. Maybe a little goofier.I think they've all done a spectacular job with the tone of these movies, and I can't believe they've been as consistent as they have.
All summer movies balance adult and cartoon. They just do so to different degrees, depending on intention. Avengers made the exact same "we can deliver them in equal amounts" mistake that Independence Day or Armageddon did, and sucked just as hard. Captain America tried to be one in part A, and then another in part B, and as a result it failed to be anything but awful beyond the 40 minute mark. Iron Man 2 tried to take some of the cartoon of the first one and replace it with very adult weight, and screwed the whole thing up. It was almost (almost!) Captain America bad. Dark Knight Rises took an extremely adult setup and then tried to get away with waaaaay too much cartoon shortcutting. It was...well, I mean Captain America was truly and genuinely retarded after he quit selling bonds. It actually belonged in a group home setting, and making fun of it is more than a little bit crass. But Dark Knight Rises had moments that approached that level of....special.

The first Iron Man painted adult emotions (in not too complicated colors) on a very bright cartoon landscape. It worked. Thor graffiti'd the cartoon, but only where appropriate for its character, and did just as well. This movie used the two extremes like high quality ski poles, shifting easily and weightlessly between them without ever allowing a balance shift in either direction.

In general, the quality and tonal seizuring amongst the Marvel films has been so seismographically diarrhetic up to this point, even within individual films, that the use of the word 'consistent' is embarrassing for all involved. All they've really managed to do consistently is look like they shared a singular art department and act like it was cute to keep putting a "so geriatric that you might be taking advantage of him" Stan Lee in unnecessary cutaways.

the tone of all of them except possibly The Hulk (which i barely remember) is lighthearted adventure movie. There is barely any difference in tone from Iron Man 1 and The Avengers. They all have moments of tension and comedy, and by most accounts seem to be successful at it far more often than not. Maybe Iron Man 3 "skies the poles" better than the others, maybe it doesn't (it doesn't), but thats just like, our opinions man. The overall tone they've set for these movies is amazingly consistent, especially considering the wide variety of settings.

you seem to have such low regard for summer movies. cartoon vs. adult? rubbish. Being a lighthearted adventure movie doesn't give it the right to be dumb. Indiana Jones isn't dumb. He doesn't just produce a magic trap disarmer that he was saving for just the right moment (even though he could have used it in any of the other 50 traps he just went through). That would be lazy writing.

Thats just one way they cheapen the character here. Having fifty easily destroyed Iron Mans flying around is cheap. Giving him absolutely no character development is cheap. Having him change not one single bit after Pepper dies is cheap. Getting rid of his heart thingy in 10 seconds of exposition is cheap. Its a soulless movie. A bad guy shows up, no one learns anything, a bunch of stuff blows up, good guy wins. At least Avengers could hide its plot contrivances with fantastic character interactions and a genuine arch (shallow though it may have been). Is there a theme here at all? The virtues of anonymity? what is it?

"thor graffiti'd the cartoon"? I dont know what that means.

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2013 3:47 am**

so basically they used iron mans arch rival to market the movie.. horseshit

other than that, cool story n good movie.. had i never read a comic, best of the 3

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2013 3:56 am**

better movie villian: hollywood mandarin or cloud galactus??

Posted: **Sun May 05, 2013 3:59 am**

i got bugs wrote:better movie villian: hollywood mandarin or cloud galactus??

i feel like i've seen the big Mandarin plot twist in something before...

btw wouldnt his whole random fortune cookie thing be a huge tipoff in real life?

Red Mosquito

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