Red Mosquito

I would agree that in those middle records there was less of "now we are soft and here comes the chorus and now we are loud! I just think there are other ways to approach dynamics. I just think to knock the middle records for repetitiveness when that is a huge part of those early records (not at all to those albums' detriment, btw) is a hard sell for me.

digster wrote:I would agree that in those middle records there was less of "now we are soft and here comes the chorus and now we are loud! I just think there are other ways to approach dynamics. I just think to knock the middle records for repetitiveness when that is a huge part of those early records (not at all to those albums' detriment, btw) is a hard sell for me.

Its not just as simple as "now we are soft" and NOW WE ARE LOUD. As pointed to, Better Man achieves its build and climax through many aspects, not just simply playing the same part louder and softer, the very composition of the song changes, everything from the drums, the instrumentation, the vocal melodies etc work together to achieve this build. The tone and feel of the song is constantly shifting and building into a wonderful climax.

Even the Even Flow breakdown its not JUST a dynamic thing, there is a lot more going on than that. And the way all of these changes work to bring the song on an emotional journey is not just as simple as saying now we are soft and NOW WE ARE LOUD.

i went ahead and skipped to page 4 and didn't read anything. is it safe to assume that this thread is about mikejason pining yet again for the first 3 albums?

FOR SPECIFIC REASONS

See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

This is what we get for teaching him the words static and dynamic.

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

PHATJ wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

But what about the build in between the solo and the chorus? That part is awesome. The part where it goes to the bass line and the drums, and then the clean version of the riff plays with the little lead fills coming in gradually as the drums grow? That part is awesome.

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

It's gotta be obvious, in your face, and preferably loud. Nothing too subtle, thoughtful, interesting, or clever for mikejasond, that's just boring.

Leatherhead wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

It's gotta be obvious, in your face, and preferably loud. Nothing too subtle, thoughtful, interesting, or clever for mikejasond, that's just boring.

It can be soft. I like soft songs. I love Elderly Woman, I like Low Light, Thumbing My Way, All Or None, I like Dead Man a lot, I like Soon Forget, I like a lot of their softer songs.

mikejasond wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

It's gotta be obvious, in your face, and preferably loud. Nothing too subtle, thoughtful, interesting, or clever for mikejasond, that's just boring.

It can be soft. I like soft songs. I love Elderly Woman, I like Low Light, Thumbing My Way, All Or None, I like Dead Man a lot, I like Soon Forget, I like a lot of their softer songs.

Well I did say preferably.

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

Precisely!

Maybe the individual parts aren't complicated, but the way they interact is, and changes throughout the entire section. There are at least like 3 distinct parts in between the choruses

mikejasond wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

It's gotta be obvious, in your face, and preferably loud. Nothing too subtle, thoughtful, interesting, or clever for mikejasond, that's just boring.

It can be soft. I like soft songs. I love Elderly Woman, I like Low Light, Thumbing My Way, All Or None, I like Dead Man a lot, I like Soon Forget, I like a lot of their softer songs.

I know words. I know words. I have the best words

mikejasond wrote:

PHATJ wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

But what about the build in between the solo and the chorus? That part is awesome. The part where it goes to the bass line and the drums, and then the clean version of the riff plays with the little lead fills coming in gradually as the drums grow? That part is awesome.

I actually think that's the most boring part of the song. They build up on that D note/ riff only to slam right into... a D chord. That loses any dynamics by simply staying on that same chord.

Look at Alive and how the bridge changes keys and then back to the E for the chorus. Now THAT's dynamic songwriting.

theplatypus wrote:

mikejasond wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

It's gotta be obvious, in your face, and preferably loud. Nothing too subtle, thoughtful, interesting, or clever for mikejasond, that's just boring.

It can be soft. I like soft songs. I love Elderly Woman, I like Low Light, Thumbing My Way, All Or None, I like Dead Man a lot, I like Soon Forget, I like a lot of their softer songs.

I know words. I know words. I have the best words

The wall just got ten feet higher.

mikejasond wrote:

Leatherhead wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:See, to my ears the middle of "Even Flow" is a jam section over a two-note bassline. Does it give rise to a few nicely organic moments? Sure. Does Mike rip on it? Naturally. But all these "changes" and "a lot more going on" is something I just don't hear. Compared to the more thoughtfully orchestrated middle sections in songs like "Light Years," "Nothing As It Seems," "Rival," and "Evacuation," it's kid stuff.

It's gotta be obvious, in your face, and preferably loud. Nothing too subtle, thoughtful, interesting, or clever for mikejasond, that's just boring.

It can be soft. I like soft songs. I love Elderly Woman, I like Low Light, Thumbing My Way, All Or None, I like Dead Man a lot, I like Soon Forget, I like a lot of their softer songs.

Yet none of these songs have the dynamics that you say you long for in the other songs. You're contradicting yourself.

cutuphalfdead wrote:This is what we get for teaching him the words static and dynamic.

Now that's funny.