Red Mosquito

harmless wrote:The weirdest thing about the U.S. is that as a collective culture, it seems to think Consumerist Capitalism and Patriarchy / Paternalism is the only form of leadership available to us. That's not a critique of your opinion, just an observation of what I see on a wider level. But the way I'm using the term, 'patriarchy' is a set of biases, values and assumptions that I think are harmful; it's not necessarily the governance pattern of which 'Matriarchy' is the opposite.

That is actually a reasonable assumption that is pretty common amongst the reactionary portion of the US population.

So, Harmless, thanks for humoring me in this thread but I think I am done with it for now. I've been a tool the last couple of posts, so enough is enough.

Something a little more lighthearted for this thread, but still thoughtful and well articulated

Carlin fan here

theplatypus wrote:Something a little more lighthearted for this thread, but still thoughtful and well articulated

Yeah this was really good. Loved what he said about the 6 subcultures.

I consider myself a pretty jaded person and basically think the worst of humanity, but this stat from that Carlin video surprised/saddened me.

turned2black wrote:I consider myself a pretty jaded person and basically think the worst of humanity, but this stat from that Carlin video surprised/saddened me.

That is a disgusting figure but to put it in perspective….
2012 male murder victims 9,917
2012 female murder victims 2,834

Figures per US Department of Justice, http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/cr ... x_2012.xls.

that figure bears no relevance to this subject.

the figure in the video points out how women who are murdered are often murdered by a significant other, not how there's a large number of murders in the US and most of them are men.

when looking at the FBI chart, it's more useful as example of how black men are being destroyed by violence in the US - not how more men are killed each year than women.

the context is all wrong in your example, regardless of what kind of perspective you're trying to provide. just because less women are murdered yearly it doesn't address what the stat in the video is pointing out.

think of it this way instead - of the (smaller number but still a lot) 2500 (approx since I don't have the stat in front of me) murdered women in the US (in 2003 at least) one third of those murders occurred at the hands of their opposite sex partner.

that's how many? 825 I think? (I'm not a math person)

now, if we had corresponding stats for men murdered by their wives/girlfriends - do you think it would be around 33%? 3300 men killed by women? I doubt it...

that's the figure you should be finding and posting here to provide the proper context.
find that figure - how many men were murdered by the women they were involved with? that's the telling number in your scenario.

I for one am so glad surfndestroy is here to defend the dude bros. (Btw, if more men are killed on average than women, is that not because more men fight wars? Hardly analogous to unasked-for domestic violence.)

harmless wrote:I for one am so glad surfndestroy is here to defend the dude bros. (Btw, if more men are killed on average than women, is that not because more men fight wars? Hardly analogous to unasked-for domestic violence.)

I don't expect snd to not stick up for men. that's fine, he's entitled to his opinions, of course. but I don't think he gets why his comments are often extraneous to the conversation at hand.

he wants to point out that men get shit on too by society or something similar - whatever, I don't think any one argues that point. but each time he finds an example to back up his comments, it's mostly unrelated to anything he's talking about. this could just be me, but over and over I've tried to point - not because I get some wicked thrill at trying to put him in his place, but because if you're going to argue about it, you might as well argue constructively and he's actually quite capable of that when he's not blinded by his defense of men in general.

no one here hates men.

men are not hated by society excect in instances of male directed actions. that's I think what he's not getting.

women are not oppressing men. we couldn't even if we wanted to do so. we're just not strong enough or powerful enough. that's what I'd like very much for him to understand.

and every time I see one of these charts I think to myself - welp, he's missing it again.

To be honest, I get a wicked thrill out of malice putting me in my place.

Well, yeah, me too.

And the dude bros comment was just sarcasm for fun. I do really hate everything about dude bros though.

harmless wrote:And the dude bros comment was just sarcasm for fun. I do really hate everything about dude bros though.

How do you feel about rude does?

theplatypus wrote:

harmless wrote:And the dude bros comment was just sarcasm for fun. I do really hate everything about dude bros though.

How do you feel about rude does?

Better. The few that I've met have been very... I'm not sure what the word is.

How do you feel about bad dudes?

You'll notice that's a man being kicked in the stomach by Bad Dude #2. I hate this misandry being perpetuated by the mainstream media.

Can we get an RM anti-Misandry campaign going, stip?

malice wrote:that figure bears no relevance to this subject.

the figure in the video points out how women who are murdered are often murdered by a significant other, not how there's a large number of murders in the US and most of them are men.

when looking at the FBI chart, it's more useful as example of how black men are being destroyed by violence in the US - not how more men are killed each year than women.

the context is all wrong in your example, regardless of what kind of perspective you're trying to provide. just because less women are murdered yearly it doesn't address what the stat in the video is pointing out.

think of it this way instead - of the (smaller number but still a lot) 2500 (approx since I don't have the stat in front of me) murdered women in the US (in 2003 at least) one third of those murders occurred at the hands of their opposite sex partner.

that's how many? 825 I think? (I'm not a math person)

now, if we had corresponding stats for men murdered by their wives/girlfriends - do you think it would be around 33%? 3300 men killed by women? I doubt it...

that's the figure you should be finding and posting here to provide the proper context.
find that figure - how many men were murdered by the women they were involved with? that's the telling number in your scenario.

It's a very germane fact because it highlights the gender bias inherent in the way violence is discussed.

it's a stat about women being murdered

- how in the world is that a display of the gender bias inherent in the way violence is discussed??