Red Mosquito

philpritchard wrote:I'm pretty sure some of us went over this years ago: I have no problem with the fact that they traded Thornton and used that money to sign Chara. And yes, it opened up a spot for Savard to take the first-line centre role. It was a good idea to trade Thornton, and it was a bad trade. It was a good idea for the Leafs to trade for Kessel, too. That doesn't mean it was a good trade. Boston should have gotten at least a similar return that they got for Kessel.

They traded him as if it was a pure salary dump when he was probably the best centre in the league.

I forgot I wrote this up a while ago (i still don't even know who the draft picks ended up being):

The Joe Thornton Trade Tree:

Joe Thornton for Wayne Primeau-Brad Stuart-Marco Sturm

Wayne Primeau-Brad Stuart for Andrew Ference-Chuck Kobasew

Chuck Kobasew for Craig Weller-Alexander Fallstrom-Minnesota's 2nd in 2011

Craig Weller-Byron Bitz-Tampa's 2nd in 2010 for Dennis Seidenberg-Matt Bartkowski

Marco Sturm for 'to be determined'/player to be named

so in the end, the Bs organization turned one player into:

two top six d-men (Ference & Seidenberg),
their #14 ranked prospect (Bartkowski, currently in Providence),
their #17 ranked prospect (Fallstrom currently at Harvard) ,
and two players to be determined (MIN's 2nd rounder (Alexander Khokhlachev) and it ended up being nothing from LA).

and this doesn't include the money that was freed up, which, like the kessel deal, was the point of making the trade. now, if you want to add the tuuka trade, and the fact that the kaberle trade sorta worked out, i'm happy as a clam with swapping stuff with the city of toronto.

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:I hope Ottawa wipes the floor with Montreal tonight...a suspension for that hit is a joke...

Especially since he had already served a game misconduct. The only reason he got suspended is because Eller hit his face on the ice, which made it look really bad. There's now way that was worth a suspension, let alone a longer suspension than what Ference got.

am I the only one who thought Subban's hit on Neil was about 1000X worse?

the only thing more pathetic than the suspension is the way Shanahan wraps himself up in knots trying to actually explain why it's suspendable

MattA75 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:I hope Ottawa wipes the floor with Montreal tonight...a suspension for that hit is a joke...

Especially since he had already served a game misconduct. The only reason he got suspended is because Eller hit his face on the ice, which made it look really bad. There's now way that was worth a suspension, let alone a longer suspension than what Ference got.

am I the only one who thought Subban's hit on Neil was about 1000X worse?

the only thing more pathetic than the suspension is the way Shanahan wraps himself up in knots trying to actually explain why it's suspendable

okay, from that write-up above, the 2nd rounder the Bs got in the Kobasew trade turned into:

Alexander Khokhlachev (C/LW) Russia Boston Bruins (from Minnesota)6 Windsor Spitfires (OHL)

he was almost traded for iginla this season.

elliseamos wrote:okay, from that write-up above, the 2nd rounder the Bs got in the Kobasew trade turned into:

Alexander Khokhlachev (C/LW) Russia Boston Bruins (from Minnesota)6 Windsor Spitfires (OHL)

he was almost traded for iginla this season.

Oddly enough, wasn't Bartkowski in the almost-Iginla-trade too?

I still think the trade on its own was horrible. In a roundabout way, yes, they managed to make it work out. Let's say they had traded Thornton for futures, the way they did with Kessel, instead of decent role players. The coinciding draft picks (1st, 2nd, 1st) from the Sharks were used to draft David Fischer (so... nothing... but Giroux, Varlamov and Berglund were picked shortly after), Mathieu Carle and Max Pacioretty. Obviously there's a high attrition rate with prospects and picks, but if I were trading someone as valuable as Thornton, I would take a chance on high-end talent any day over getting decent players to fill out a roster.

philpritchard wrote:

elliseamos wrote:okay, from that write-up above, the 2nd rounder the Bs got in the Kobasew trade turned into:

Alexander Khokhlachev (C/LW) Russia Boston Bruins (from Minnesota)6 Windsor Spitfires (OHL)

he was almost traded for iginla this season.

Oddly enough, wasn't Bartkowski in the almost-Iginla-trade too?

I still think the trade on its own was horrible. ... Obviously there's a high attrition rate with prospects and picks, but if I were trading someone as valuable as Thornton, I would take a chance on high-end talent any day over getting decent players to fill out a roster.

i do agree, but you have to remember the lock-out was coming the following season. that was a salary dump (pre-emptively). which is why Primeau & Stuart were traded the next year for guys that had better numbers (monetarily).

The Sedins are regular season heroes. They will never win a Cup.

I said two years ago after the Cup loss that that was the time for Vancouver to turn the Sedins into something that will keep them contenders for the next decade

I was hopeful going into this postseason because of how well they had played leading into the post season , and because no team with Joe Thornton on it will ever scare me, but all my criticisms of this team from two months ago are coming roaring back again

At this point, I can only hope AV gets fired if he's bounced in the first round again

im routing for the islanders to win the cup now

That was more fun!

The leafs played really well tonight! How about that pass to set up Kessel for the breakaway and later, goal # 4 was fun to see.

What a horseshit way to lose a game.

Grabner speared in the nuts, no call.

Murray high sticks a puck negating a breakaway, no call.

Crosby holds on to the Islanders defenseman and falls down, call the defenseman for holding, game over.

I hope Phaneuf will be getting a one game suspension for that hit on Paille.

numbers wrote:I hope Phaneuf will be getting a one game suspension for that hit on Paille.

It's a complete joke that people are calling for a suspension and comparing it to the Ference hit. The primary point of contact is not the head and the elbow comes out after contact as been made, as part of the follow through. It's a clean hit, and I find it hard to believe that Boston fans, who normally love the rough stuff, genuinely think that should be a suspension or that it's in any way similar to Ference's.

we like the rough stuff but if we're going to lose players for meh hits the other team should be too.

numbers wrote:we like the rough stuff but if we're going to lose players for meh hits the other team should be too.

I agree. But Ference's hit was clearly an elbow to the face and Phaneuf's hit, depending which angle you view, may have been questionable. They're not comparable hits at all.

The only thing better than the Canadiens losing big is when they lose five fights on the ice simultaneously...friggin such dinks

and Subban is a disgrace

MattA75 wrote:The only thing better than the Canadiens losing big is when they lose five fights on the ice simultaneously...friggin such dinks

and Subban is a disgrace

Hey, at least give Subban a little credit... he won his fight (against Kyle Turris, who's probably the least likely player on either team to fight and was pinned down by a ref most of the time and took three punches to the head while he wasn't even ready to drop his gloves... but Subban still won!)

Isn't it weird that things like this tend to happen when the Habs are getting blown out? Maybe it's not always the other team trying to goon it up...

As a Leafs fan, I kinda hate this series because I want everyone to lose every fight and both teams to lose every game.

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:The only thing better than the Canadiens losing big is when they lose five fights on the ice simultaneously...friggin such dinks

and Subban is a disgrace

Hey, at least give Subban a little credit... he won his fight (against Kyle Turris, who's probably the least likely player on either team to fight and was pinned down by a ref most of the time and took three punches to the head while he wasn't even ready to drop his gloves... but Subban still won!)

Isn't it weird that things like this tend to happen when the Habs are getting blown out? Maybe it's not always the other team trying to goon it up...

As a Leafs fan, I kinda hate this series because I want everyone to lose every fight and both teams to lose every game.

I'll give the Habs credit...at least they try to goon it up when they're getting their ass kicked on the scoreboard...Vancouver just fucking takes it...seriously Phil, you want the Swedish Joe Thornton twins AND Luongo? You don't even have to give us anything, just please take them, we'll even pay half their salaries, just get them the fuck out of Vancouver

There has never been a team with less balls than Vancouver right now...I'd kill to have a team half as likable as Ottawa right now

MattA75 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

MattA75 wrote:The only thing better than the Canadiens losing big is when they lose five fights on the ice simultaneously...friggin such dinks

and Subban is a disgrace

Hey, at least give Subban a little credit... he won his fight (against Kyle Turris, who's probably the least likely player on either team to fight and was pinned down by a ref most of the time and took three punches to the head while he wasn't even ready to drop his gloves... but Subban still won!)

Isn't it weird that things like this tend to happen when the Habs are getting blown out? Maybe it's not always the other team trying to goon it up...

As a Leafs fan, I kinda hate this series because I want everyone to lose every fight and both teams to lose every game.

I'll give the Habs credit...at least they try to goon it up when they're getting their ass kicked on the scoreboard...Vancouver just fucking takes it...seriously Phil, you want the Swedish Joe Thornton twins AND Luongo? You don't even have to give us anything, just please take them, we'll even pay half their salaries, just get them the fuck out of Vancouver

There has never been a team with less balls than Vancouver right now...I'd kill to have a team half as likable as Ottawa right now

It might be time for Vancouver to think about building for the future. I think I would almost prefer to trade Schneider if I were in charge because he should bring in a good return, while Luongo, while still a good goalie, would be gone for nothing at all. I don't know, it's a really complicated situation in Vancouver right now.