Red Mosquito

Jesus, Trag.

Lets just dance man.

tragabigzanda wrote:

Birds in Hell wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

tragabigzanda wrote:AHHH! What the fucking fuck?! This is genuinely the first time I've ever been pissed off on RM. Are you guys really laying out the argument that:

A) the band might have needed some money, and therefore
B) taking their drug-addicted friend and lead-singer through a couple more rounds of the promo machine was an ok choice?

No. Not even a little bit. No one is saying anything remotely like that. I'm flabbergasted that's your take away from this discussion.

No, I was simply saying that, even if the DeLeo brothers and the drummer fellow were confirmed billionaires, I don't think any of us are in a position to say "alright buddy, I think you have enough money now. Time to pack in the band."

This is precisely what I'm saying, with the addition that their choices may have been fueled by ego rather than money. Either way, they were not good friends to their mentally ill frontman.

Were I able to confront the band with my opinion, I suspect their reaction would be along the lines of "We really tried to get him help."
To which I would reply, "Not hard enough you didn't. You shouldn't have taken him back until he was clean and mentally sound."

He probably was clean at various times. I think you're being unreasonable to assume that three rock musicians with no medical credentials at all would have inherenrly known the difference between clean-for-now and clean-forever. It was probably a learn-as-you-go experience for them, too.

I been there, man

Kevin Davis wrote:He probably was clean at various times. I think you're being unreasonable to assume that three rock musicians with no medical credentials at all would have inherenrly known the difference between clean-for-now and clean-forever. It was probably a learn-as-you-go experience for them, too.

Exactly. He has several quotes about being clean for as many as 13 years.

Well this one still stings. Even if i had written him off long ago, there was definitely a time in the mid 90s, particularly with Purple and Tiny Music where these guys were my 2nd favorite band behind Pearl Jam.

The inevitable top 10 list:

1. Still Remains
2. Seven Caged Tigers
3. Interstate Love Song
4. Atlanta
5. Vasoline
6. Big Empty
7. Trippin' On a Hole...
8. Adhesive
9. Glide
10. Big Bang Baby

It's interesting to see so many closet or former STP fans coming out of the cracks. I am glad there are more fans out there than I thought. STP has always been one of my five favorite bands/musicians (along with PJ, Pink Floyd, Beck & Ween (The National is my favorite group currently making music)). Purple and Tiny Music are just so, so good. Purple might be my favorite album of the '90s. Core and No.4 are great, and I've always enjoyed the last two albums too. For those of you that haven't listened to the S/T album, Take A Load Off is a classicly wonderful STP song. There are a number of other good ones too, but Take A Load Off is great. Listen to it.

As a long time fan, it is a bummer to see Wieland die. He has been one of my favorite singers for over 20 years after all. The thing is, I haven't at all felt the need to "grieve". I guess I was just ready for this day to come. I suspect that because it has been so expected, for so long, I am numb or unaffected by his death. I don't know what that says about me..?

PHATJ wrote:It's interesting to see so many closet or former STP fans coming out of the cracks. I am glad there are more fans out there than I thought. STP has always been one of my five favorite bands/musicians (along with PJ, Pink Floyd, Beck & Ween (The National is my favorite group currently making music)). Purple and Tiny Music are just so, so good. Purple might be my favorite album of the '90s. Core and No.4 are great, and I've always enjoyed the last two albums too. For those of you that haven't listened to the S/T album, Take A Load Off is a classicly wonderful STP song. There are a number of other good ones too, but Take A Load Off is great. Listen to it.

As a long time fan, it is a bummer to see Wieland die. He has been one of my favorite singers for over 20 years after all. The thing is, I haven't at all felt the need to "grieve". I guess I was just ready for this day to come. I suspect that because it has been so expected, for so long, I am numb or unaffected by his death. I don't know what that says about me..?

Well, im in the opposite side...im a huge fan of them and i didnt expect his death to move me like it did.

VinylGuy wrote:

PHATJ wrote:It's interesting to see so many closet or former STP fans coming out of the cracks. I am glad there are more fans out there than I thought. STP has always been one of my five favorite bands/musicians (along with PJ, Pink Floyd, Beck & Ween (The National is my favorite group currently making music)). Purple and Tiny Music are just so, so good. Purple might be my favorite album of the '90s. Core and No.4 are great, and I've always enjoyed the last two albums too. For those of you that haven't listened to the S/T album, Take A Load Off is a classicly wonderful STP song. There are a number of other good ones too, but Take A Load Off is great. Listen to it.

As a long time fan, it is a bummer to see Wieland die. He has been one of my favorite singers for over 20 years after all. The thing is, I haven't at all felt the need to "grieve". I guess I was just ready for this day to come. I suspect that because it has been so expected, for so long, I am numb or unaffected by his death. I don't know what that says about me..?

Well, im in the opposite side...im a huge fan of them and i didnt expect his death to move me like it did.

I've been pondering why I haven't had an emotional reaction of any kind and I realize it may be because I've only listened to two or three of his songs since he died. I suspect if I had time to sit and listen for an hour or two that I'd feel some emotion. Don't get me wrong, I'm generally sad that he died, and I do feel sad for his kids, it just hasn't affected my mood at all. Maybe I'll find time to listen some more.

I'd imagine that when the 4 of them were in a room playing it was like a drug to all of them. Money, drugs and all the other shit would have melted away. But when you are trying to both be a business and a functioning band then all of the other stuff (all except the music on stage) would be about 23 hours a day. That's a lot of time to be feeling uncomfortable with a situation and that would seep into the good aspect, the playing together on stage/in a room.

And let's not even pretend that in 94/95 when there was the shift in power in PJ, that Stone and Jeff didn't once think that Ed was the meal ticket for the band and that if he left they'd be adrift again.

nice to see pearl jam coming into this thread.

lets talk about Dave A.

All of Pearl Jam's drummers are better than Eric Kretz.

Maybe.

I think outside of Lounge Fly I've never noticed him. Sometimes not noticing the drummer is a good thing though.

LetMeSleep wrote:And let's not even pretend that in 94/95 when there was the shift in power in PJ, that Stone and Jeff didn't once think that Ed was the meal ticket for the band and that if he left they'd be adrift again.

Absolutely, I think when people marvel that Pearl Jam never broke up it's often overlooked how important a role Andy Wood's death plays in that. At a point when Jeff and Stone were about release their debut album on a major label and had no doubt begun to imagine what impact this could have on their future earning potential, it all fell into a heap. Once the Pearl Jam train got rolling, I think they were absolutely committed to keeping it going no matter what. If that meant ceding a portion of their internal power to Ed, then so be it. You see it in the way they were repeatedly ruthless with drummers too: Krusen was booted for being unreliable (alcohol issues, personal life issues, not entirely committed to the band, etc.), Abbruzzese booted for a personality mismatch, Irons effectively booted for not being of reliably sound mental health.

bada wrote:I think outside of Lounge Fly I've never noticed him. Sometimes not noticing the drummer is a good thing though.

He's a good drummer and you're right about that. There are very few good to great bands that don't have a decent drummer. A bad or average drummer will bring down a band more than a average bass player or rhythm guitarist.

LetMeSleep wrote:

bada wrote:I think outside of Lounge Fly I've never noticed him. Sometimes not noticing the drummer is a good thing though.

He's a good drummer and you're right about that. There are very few good to great bands that don't have a decent drummer. A bad or average drummer will bring down a band more than a average bass player or rhythm guitarist.

Definitely.

Birds in Hell wrote:

LetMeSleep wrote:And let's not even pretend that in 94/95 when there was the shift in power in PJ, that Stone and Jeff didn't once think that Ed was the meal ticket for the band and that if he left they'd be adrift again.

Absolutely, I think when people marvel that Pearl Jam never broke up it's often overlooked how important a role Andy Wood's death plays in that. At a point when Jeff and Stone were about release their debut album on a major label and had no doubt begun to imagine what impact this could have on their future earning potential, it all fell into a heap. Once the Pearl Jam train got rolling, I think they were absolutely committed to keeping it going no matter what. If that meant ceding a portion of their internal power to Ed, then so be it. You see it in the way they were repeatedly ruthless with drummers too: Krusen was booted for being unreliable (alcohol issues, personal life issues, not entirely committed to the band, etc.), Abbruzzese booted for a personality mismatch, Irons effectively booted for not being of reliably sound mental health.

Spot on. They must have shat themselves nightly when Ed was scaling any handy erection.