Red Mosquito

verb_to_trust wrote:The 93 American League all star teem trancend time

BigRedLedbetter wrote:Maybe the 08 Phillies?

Chris_H_2 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Lament wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Who is arguing? Doesnt mean they wont be stuck in purgatory for 3 or 4 years until they can freshen up the farm system and do a proper rebuild.

Being the expert you obviously are on the White Sox farm system, you'd think you'd be aware of what #BRL said earlier about Montas being ready for 2016. Rodon is showing that he's ready to be a #2 starter (and eventually an ace) sooner than even the most optimistic Sox fans would have thought. Sale is one of the few true aces/#1 starters in baseball. They have the potential to have the best 1-3 starters outside of Los Angeles in 2016 and the best staff in baseball by 2017.

Name one position player the White Sox have developed that did anything since Joe Crede.

While we wait for a response, name one Cub who has won a World Series since Mordecai Brown.

nice straw man argument

I'm not making an argument. I'm making fun of the Cubs.

ah, got it. I guess the answer to your question is the same as the number of blue jays who have made the playoffs in the last quarter century.

So... like... 70?

crap, am I missing the blue jays playoff runs since 1993?

Lament wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:but you still need to hit and be able to field your position (see: the 2013 Detroit Tigers). it's easier to pay pitchers without the risk of a huge fall off short of injury. it's much harder to find and pay free-agent position players who (a) actually come on the market without being bottled up by their teams at a relatively young age (e.g., evan longoria, Anthony Rizzo, etc.) and (b) produce at the same level at with their previous teams to justify the huge contracts that they'll demand (there's a ton of anecdotal evidence of this in the past 5 years, including this year's white sox).

They've gotten very successful seasons out of guys like Jermaine Dye, Jim Thome, Alexei Ramirez, Jose Abreu, A.J. Pierzynski, Alex Rios, and Carlos Quention in the time KW has been in the organization by acquiring them through those means, so it's hardly an impossible task.

philpritchard wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

philpritchard wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Lament wrote:

verb_to_trust wrote:Who is arguing? Doesnt mean they wont be stuck in purgatory for 3 or 4 years until they can freshen up the farm system and do a proper rebuild.

Being the expert you obviously are on the White Sox farm system, you'd think you'd be aware of what #BRL said earlier about Montas being ready for 2016. Rodon is showing that he's ready to be a #2 starter (and eventually an ace) sooner than even the most optimistic Sox fans would have thought. Sale is one of the few true aces/#1 starters in baseball. They have the potential to have the best 1-3 starters outside of Los Angeles in 2016 and the best staff in baseball by 2017.

Name one position player the White Sox have developed that did anything since Joe Crede.

While we wait for a response, name one Cub who has won a World Series since Mordecai Brown.

nice straw man argument

I'm not making an argument. I'm making fun of the Cubs.

ah, got it. I guess the answer to your question is the same as the number of blue jays who have made the playoffs in the last quarter century.

So... like... 70?

crap, am I missing the blue jays playoff runs since 1993?

No, you're missing the part where 1992 and 1993 were part of the last quarter century.

Semantics ftw!

Lament wrote:

BigRedLedbetter wrote:Maybe the 08 Phillies?

I guess they'd be the closest. But they needed an otherworld postseason from Cole Hamels to make it happen. The 2002 Angels didn't really have anyone on their staff that had an outstanding postseason (KRod was probably the closest) en route to the title. But even if you want to count them, that's two.

cutuphalfdead wrote:And the Cardinals.

philpritchard wrote:Can't we all just get back to hating the Yankees together?

cutuphalfdead wrote:And the Cardinals.

Chris_H_2 wrote:

Lament wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:but you still need to hit and be able to field your position (see: the 2013 Detroit Tigers). it's easier to pay pitchers without the risk of a huge fall off short of injury. it's much harder to find and pay free-agent position players who (a) actually come on the market without being bottled up by their teams at a relatively young age (e.g., evan longoria, Anthony Rizzo, etc.) and (b) produce at the same level at with their previous teams to justify the huge contracts that they'll demand (there's a ton of anecdotal evidence of this in the past 5 years, including this year's white sox).

They've gotten very successful seasons out of guys like Jermaine Dye, Jim Thome, Alexei Ramirez, Jose Abreu, A.J. Pierzynski, Alex Rios, and Carlos Quention in the time KW has been in the organization by acquiring them through those means, so it's hardly an impossible task.

my overall point was more that reinsdorf had certainly hamstrung KW and made his job of trying to find free agent position players (in lieu of drafting them by paying over slot) that much harder. other than the abortion of a signing for dunn, it's not like he's hedged his draft cheapness by opening up the coffers and letting KW spend on a big-ticket fa position player.

by the way, i'm still shocked at how much the white sox have underperformed this year. there's no way it continues next year.

Chris_H_2 wrote:my overall point was more that reinsdorf had certainly hamstrung KW and made his job of trying to find free agent position players (in lieu of drafting them by paying over slot) that much harder. other than the abortion of a signing for dunn, it's not like he's hedged his draft cheapness by opening up the coffers and letting KW spend on a big-ticket fa position player.

by the way, i'm still shocked at how much the white sox have underperformed this year. there's no way it continues next year.

Lament wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:my overall point was more that reinsdorf had certainly hamstrung KW and made his job of trying to find free agent position players (in lieu of drafting them by paying over slot) that much harder. other than the abortion of a signing for dunn, it's not like he's hedged his draft cheapness by opening up the coffers and letting KW spend on a big-ticket fa position player.

by the way, i'm still shocked at how much the white sox have underperformed this year. there's no way it continues next year.

I agree that JR has put KW and Hahn in a bad spot over the past five or six years, but I think part of that is because KW was so successful building the 2005 team with a lot of those same means. Letting him spend as much money on Abreu was a big deal, and thankfully has worked out so far. He's seemed to loosen up the reins a bit in the draft as well; KW and Hahn just seem to want to build through pitching right now. Hahn even said the other day that the intent was to stock up on arms because he thinks it's easier to unload young arms for position players than vice versa.

I wish I could say I'm shocked at how bad they've been, but with Ventura at the helm my feeling was that if they didn't get off to a hot start, they'd end up pretty bad. Firing him is the #1 thing I want to see them do in the offseason.

BigRedLedbetter wrote:

Lament wrote:

Chris_H_2 wrote:my overall point was more that reinsdorf had certainly hamstrung KW and made his job of trying to find free agent position players (in lieu of drafting them by paying over slot) that much harder. other than the abortion of a signing for dunn, it's not like he's hedged his draft cheapness by opening up the coffers and letting KW spend on a big-ticket fa position player.

by the way, i'm still shocked at how much the white sox have underperformed this year. there's no way it continues next year.

I agree that JR has put KW and Hahn in a bad spot over the past five or six years, but I think part of that is because KW was so successful building the 2005 team with a lot of those same means. Letting him spend as much money on Abreu was a big deal, and thankfully has worked out so far. He's seemed to loosen up the reins a bit in the draft as well; KW and Hahn just seem to want to build through pitching right now. Hahn even said the other day that the intent was to stock up on arms because he thinks it's easier to unload young arms for position players than vice versa.

I wish I could say I'm shocked at how bad they've been, but with Ventura at the helm my feeling was that if they didn't get off to a hot start, they'd end up pretty bad. Firing him is the #1 thing I want to see them do in the offseason.

I thought you guys would be a WC team.