Red Mosquito

Bi_3 wrote:Do it

Farmer John wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Do it

Tariffs on the oil and also a pipeline at the same time?

Bi_3 wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Do it

Tariffs on the oil and also a pipeline at the same time?

Isnt that a net positive? Increases continental supply that will drive down prices while increasing the prices with tariffs that will capture the difference into tax revenue without too much consumer pain.

Peeps wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Do it

Tariffs on the oil and also a pipeline at the same time?

Isnt that a net positive? Increases continental supply that will drive down prices while increasing the prices with tariffs that will capture the difference into tax revenue without too much consumer pain.

will it drive down prices? i thought i read that the keystone just transported oil to be processes and sent overseas

Keystone pipeline, gas prices, and oil exports
Dirty energy lobbyists claimed developing tar sands would protect our national energy security and bring U.S. fuel prices down. But environmental reviews by both the Obama and Trump administrations concluded that the Keystone XL pipeline would not have lowered gasoline prices. NRDC and its partners also found the majority of Keystone XL oil would have been sent to markets overseas—aided by a 2015 reversal of a ban on crude oil exports.

spike wrote:

BurtReynolds wrote:

Dev wrote:

spike wrote:

Ello Sailor wrote:You're an imbecile. Respectfully.

I’d say a coward above all. It’s easy going through life only giving a shit about yourself.

You two literally hate Burt so much you can forgot your own differences with eachother? Sort of remarkable.

It's so weird lol. They haven't offered any opinions on the subjects at hand. It's just personal attacks! I'm worried about these guys. How are they gonna survive the new board rules?

what opinion? just let everyone be who they are.

let them be free, as you so often tout.

Bi_3 wrote:

Peeps wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Do it

Tariffs on the oil and also a pipeline at the same time?

Isnt that a net positive? Increases continental supply that will drive down prices while increasing the prices with tariffs that will capture the difference into tax revenue without too much consumer pain.

will it drive down prices? i thought i read that the keystone just transported oil to be processes and sent overseas

Keystone pipeline, gas prices, and oil exports
Dirty energy lobbyists claimed developing tar sands would protect our national energy security and bring U.S. fuel prices down. But environmental reviews by both the Obama and Trump administrations concluded that the Keystone XL pipeline would not have lowered gasoline prices. NRDC and its partners also found the majority of Keystone XL oil would have been sent to markets overseas—aided by a 2015 reversal of a ban on crude oil exports.

This is a framing trick. Increasing supply to otherwise idle refining capacity will lower oil prices (supply and demand) but not necessarily in the immediate term in the US as existing fuel contracts are not dynamically updated. Even if the fuel is sent overseas instead of being used to refill the national reserves that Biden emptied to suppress prices (see, supply and demand!) the increase in supply can be used to offset fuel that otherwise would have to come from Russia, forcing their prices down in order to get buyers. I would also caution that referencing the opinions of an environmentalist org may not be the unbiased perspective needed here.

The Keystone XL pipeline, which was proposed to expand the existing Keystone pipeline system that transports oil from Canada to various locations in the United States, including refineries and distribution hubs, was expected to have a limited impact on U.S. gas prices. While it might have slightly increased the supply of oil, the effect on gas prices was predicted to be minimal for several reasons:

Global Market Prices: Oil prices are determined on the global market, and the amount of oil the Keystone XL pipeline was expected to transport (830,000 barrels per day) is relatively small compared to global production. Therefore, any changes in U.S. supply would likely have a minor impact on global oil prices.

Refining Capacity: The impact on gas prices also depends on refining capacity. Even if more crude oil becomes available, the capacity of refineries to process crude into gasoline and other products can limit how much this affects gas prices.

Transportation Costs and Efficiencies: The pipeline could potentially lower transportation costs for getting Canadian crude to U.S. refineries compared to shipping it by rail or truck. This could make oil from Canada cheaper for U.S. refineries, but it's not guaranteed that these savings would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower gas prices.

Regional Differences: The impact might vary by region. Areas closer to where the oil is refined might see slightly more benefit, but again, this would be modest.

As of 2021, the Keystone XL pipeline project was canceled, so any speculative effects on gas prices became moot with the project's termination. The broader discussion now focuses more on transitioning to renewable energy sources and reducing dependency on fossil fuels, which could ultimately have more significant implications for energy prices and sustainability.

Peeps wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Peeps wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Farmer John wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:Do it

<snip>

Tariffs on the oil and also a pipeline at the same time?

Isnt that a net positive? Increases continental supply that will drive down prices while increasing the prices with tariffs that will capture the difference into tax revenue without too much consumer pain.

will it drive down prices? i thought i read that the keystone just transported oil to be processes and sent overseas

Keystone pipeline, gas prices, and oil exports
Dirty energy lobbyists claimed developing tar sands would protect our national energy security and bring U.S. fuel prices down. But environmental reviews by both the Obama and Trump administrations concluded that the Keystone XL pipeline would not have lowered gasoline prices. NRDC and its partners also found the majority of Keystone XL oil would have been sent to markets overseas—aided by a 2015 reversal of a ban on crude oil exports.

This is a framing trick. Increasing supply to otherwise idle refining capacity will lower oil prices (supply and demand) but not necessarily in the immediate term in the US as existing fuel contracts are not dynamically updated. Even if the fuel is sent overseas instead of being used to refill the national reserves that Biden emptied to suppress prices (see, supply and demand!) the increase in supply can be used to offset fuel that otherwise would have to come from Russia, forcing their prices down in order to get buyers. I would also caution that referencing the opinions of an environmentalist org may not be the unbiased perspective needed here.

does chatgpt use framing tricks?

The Keystone XL pipeline, which was proposed to expand the existing Keystone pipeline system that transports oil from Canada to various locations in the United States, including refineries and distribution hubs, was expected to have a limited impact on U.S. gas prices. While it might have slightly increased the supply of oil, the effect on gas prices was predicted to be minimal for several reasons:

Global Market Prices: Oil prices are determined on the global market, and the amount of oil the Keystone XL pipeline was expected to transport (830,000 barrels per day) is relatively small compared to global production. Therefore, any changes in U.S. supply would likely have a minor impact on global oil prices.

Refining Capacity: The impact on gas prices also depends on refining capacity. Even if more crude oil becomes available, the capacity of refineries to process crude into gasoline and other products can limit how much this affects gas prices.

Transportation Costs and Efficiencies: The pipeline could potentially lower transportation costs for getting Canadian crude to U.S. refineries compared to shipping it by rail or truck. This could make oil from Canada cheaper for U.S. refineries, but it's not guaranteed that these savings would be passed on to consumers in the form of lower gas prices.

Regional Differences: The impact might vary by region. Areas closer to where the oil is refined might see slightly more benefit, but again, this would be modest.

As of 2021, the Keystone XL pipeline project was canceled, so any speculative effects on gas prices became moot with the project's termination. The broader discussion now focuses more on transitioning to renewable energy sources and reducing dependency on fossil fuels, which could ultimately have more significant implications for energy prices and sustainability.

Sloppy Dupree wrote:I’m waiting for the breakup of Trump and Musk. They might be ideological buddies but there’s no way two guys with personality disorders can stay friends for long.

Peeps wrote:i mentally interjected big price difference when you stated it would lower prices. i didnt think it would drop 2 dollars a gallon. at best what...maybe 5 cents if we are being generous?

the pipeline would hardly be a blip in the grand scheme of things

the US alone produces approx 13.4 million barrels a day
sure 830K barrels from the pipeline seems a lot compared to that

but the world produces approx 81,804,000 barrels a day

i dont think .01% of more oil produced (never mind it is dirty oil and not crude so I am not even sure in the long run how much of that is going to be usable without being refined significantly) is going to move the needle on gas prices in the least

Bi_3 wrote:

Peeps wrote:i mentally interjected big price difference when you stated it would lower prices. i didnt think it would drop 2 dollars a gallon. at best what...maybe 5 cents if we are being generous?

the pipeline would hardly be a blip in the grand scheme of things

the US alone produces approx 13.4 million barrels a day
sure 830K barrels from the pipeline seems a lot compared to that

but the world produces approx 81,804,000 barrels a day

i dont think .01% of more oil produced (never mind it is dirty oil and not crude so I am not even sure in the long run how much of that is going to be usable without being refined significantly) is going to move the needle on gas prices in the least

You may have a math mistake there

Peeps wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Peeps wrote:i mentally interjected big price difference when you stated it would lower prices. i didnt think it would drop 2 dollars a gallon. at best what...maybe 5 cents if we are being generous?

the pipeline would hardly be a blip in the grand scheme of things

the US alone produces approx 13.4 million barrels a day
sure 830K barrels from the pipeline seems a lot compared to that

but the world produces approx 81,804,000 barrels a day

i dont think .01% of more oil produced (never mind it is dirty oil and not crude so I am not even sure in the long run how much of that is going to be usable without being refined significantly) is going to move the needle on gas prices in the least

You may have a math mistake there

my bad (always forget to move the decimal point), 1% which does not change anything price wise

Bi_3 wrote:

Peeps wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Peeps wrote:i mentally interjected big price difference when you stated it would lower prices. i didnt think it would drop 2 dollars a gallon. at best what...maybe 5 cents if we are being generous?

the pipeline would hardly be a blip in the grand scheme of things

the US alone produces approx 13.4 million barrels a day
sure 830K barrels from the pipeline seems a lot compared to that

but the world produces approx 81,804,000 barrels a day

i dont think .01% of more oil produced (never mind it is dirty oil and not crude so I am not even sure in the long run how much of that is going to be usable without being refined significantly) is going to move the needle on gas prices in the least

You may have a math mistake there

from what i have skimmed the oil the pipeline would transport is "sludge"oil and it has to be refined a lot more to be able to use, hence it costs more than regular crude oil

my bad (always forget to move the decimal point), 1% which does not change anything price wise

I'll have to concede this one because we are waaaay beyond my understanding level, but my suspicion is that a 1% global supply increase in refined petroleum is significant price-wise. I don't have evidence for that though so you could very well be correct.