Red Mosquito

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Is anyone remotely the same person they were in high school with the same view of the world and themselves?

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Is anyone remotely the same person they were in high school with the same view of the world and themselves?

Worldview: no
Self: probably pretty close, yes

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Is anyone remotely the same person they were in high school with the same view of the world and themselves?

Smoking, voting, and driving impact others, and sugary snacks and student loans are legal.

I'll be honest, I work really hard to keep my opinions of the trans community to myself

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Wait until you find out about dentistry.

Bammer wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Is anyone remotely the same person they were in high school with the same view of the world and themselves?

Worldview: no
Self: probably pretty close, yes

I was wrong about the timing anyway, the blockers are generally given in the 10-11 y.o. range, so same question but now you’re in 4th grade

Bi_3 wrote:

Bammer wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Is anyone remotely the same person they were in high school with the same view of the world and themselves?

Worldview: no
Self: probably pretty close, yes

I was wrong about the timing anyway, the blockers are generally given in the 10-11 y.o. range, so same question but now you’re in 4th grade

I think that was my Zach Morris phase

The NC ban on new protections for the LBGT community ran out on January 1st. Cities here have gotten to work writing new laws.

Bi_3 wrote:

Bammer wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Is anyone remotely the same person they were in high school with the same view of the world and themselves?

Worldview: no
Self: probably pretty close, yes

I was wrong about the timing anyway, the blockers are generally given in the 10-11 y.o. range, so same question but now you’re in 4th grade

I have 3 young kids ranging in age from 5-10, and yea, I've thought about this. I like to think I'm a pretty liberal guy, all I want for my kids is to lead a happy, decent life. I just can't imagine anyone thinking a 10-11 year old child has the capacity to make a decision like this, and therefore it stands to reason (for me) that a parent doesn't have the right, either. I don't doubt there may be children who are transgender, and that beginning the process before puberty could produce a better outcome for that individual, but it seems many of them end up just being homosexual. How is one supposed to know this before a child has had time to mature and actually experience their body? We're talking about an irreversible process here, which may require a lifetime of hormone therapies.

Just my opinion, of course. I admit I haven't experienced anything like this in my own life/family.

I am so confused...

“Clarendon — an eight-year veteran in the WNBA — announced they were trans in 2020. In an Instagram post, Clarendon wrote he was trans and non-binary, meaning she does not identify with the gender assigned to her at birth, but does not consider himself exclusively male or female. Clarendon uses the pronouns she/her/they/them/he/him.”

Bammer wrote:I am so confused...

“Clarendon — an eight-year veteran in the WNBA — announced they were trans in 2020. In an Instagram post, Clarendon wrote he was trans and non-binary, meaning she does not identify with the gender assigned to her at birth, but does not consider himself exclusively male or female. Clarendon uses the pronouns she/her/they/them/he/him.”

Sure, sure, but can they orchestrate a proper fast break?

"I want to be another gender."
Me: OK

"I want no gender."
Me: Fine.

"Use the pronouns for the gender I express."
Me: Sure.

"Don't use he or she. Call me they"
Me: OK.

"We're using Zhey now."
Me: Fine.

"Nobody got that. Go back to They."
Me: Sure.

"Use all the pronouns in random order."
Me: ...

elliseamos wrote:

Bammer wrote:I am so confused...

“Clarendon — an eight-year veteran in the WNBA — announced they were trans in 2020. In an Instagram post, Clarendon wrote he was trans and non-binary, meaning she does not identify with the gender assigned to her at birth, but does not consider himself exclusively male or female. Clarendon uses the pronouns she/her/they/them/he/him.”

Sure, sure, but can they orchestrate a proper fast break?

Obviously not.

They best thing about this gender stuff is that it actually hurts women's sports, and women's sports are boring and shouldn't be on tv.

verb_to_trust wrote:

elliseamos wrote:

Bammer wrote:I am so confused...

“Clarendon — an eight-year veteran in the WNBA — announced they were trans in 2020. In an Instagram post, Clarendon wrote he was trans and non-binary, meaning she does not identify with the gender assigned to her at birth, but does not consider himself exclusively male or female. Clarendon uses the pronouns she/her/they/them/he/him.”

Sure, sure, but can they orchestrate a proper fast break?

Obviously not.

They best thing about this gender stuff is that it actually hurts women's sports, and women's sports are boring and shouldn't be on tv.

Verb, I don't think you have to worry too much about people actually watching the games. But you're probably not going to get away from press because covering the WNBA is a woke thing to do.

I actually think it would be fascinating to see a study on what percentage of WNBA stories in the media actually have to do with basketball. I mean sure, there are plenty of non-basketball stories covered in the NBA, but as a percentage, I'd have to think that for WNBA it is extremely minimal.

Even an NBA story about "player argues with coach over who takes last shot" is technically a story about playing the game of basketball, as opposed to WNBA "player wears t-shirt supporting X Candidate during warmups" or "player wants to be a man now."

Think about how many WNBA stories you might scroll across, and then think about how many of them are actually about the game being played on the court.

Again I don't think you have to worry too much about people watching those televised games, playa.

Rob wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Bammer wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

B wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:I think the bigger question is 'can kids really consent to puberty blockers?'

I don't know, but I'm sure that a kid and their parents can make that decision.

I’m not at all. It’s puzzling that on one hand we say they are too young to smoke, drive, vote, have sugary sodas in the school vending machines, understand student loans... but on the other hand say they can comprehend the ramifications of irreversibly altering the core functioning of their biology.

Is anyone remotely the same person they were in high school with the same view of the world and themselves?

Worldview: no
Self: probably pretty close, yes

I was wrong about the timing anyway, the blockers are generally given in the 10-11 y.o. range, so same question but now you’re in 4th grade

I have 3 young kids ranging in age from 5-10, and yea, I've thought about this. I like to think I'm a pretty liberal guy, all I want for my kids is to lead a happy, decent life. I just can't imagine anyone thinking a 10-11 year old child has the capacity to make a decision like this, and therefore it stands to reason (for me) that a parent doesn't have the right, either. I don't doubt there may be children who are transgender, and that beginning the process before puberty could produce a better outcome for that individual, but it seems many of them end up just being homosexual. How is one supposed to know this before a child has had time to mature and actually experience their body? We're talking about an irreversible process here, which may require a lifetime of hormone therapies.

Just my opinion, of course. I admit I haven't experienced anything like this in my own life/family.

It might be different if it was your own child struggling, but I think you expressed this elegantly and IMHO correctly. Trans people are real. Trans identities are valid. But children need time to grow and learn and discover themselves with parents supporting them, not injecting change into to them.

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I have 3 young kids ranging in age from 5-10, and yea, I've thought about this. I like to think I'm a pretty liberal guy, all I want for my kids is to lead a happy, decent life. I just can't imagine anyone thinking a 10-11 year old child has the capacity to make a decision like this, and therefore it stands to reason (for me) that a parent doesn't have the right, either. I don't doubt there may be children who are transgender, and that beginning the process before puberty could produce a better outcome for that individual, but it seems many of them end up just being homosexual. How is one supposed to know this before a child has had time to mature and actually experience their body? We're talking about an irreversible process here, which may require a lifetime of hormone therapies.

Just my opinion, of course. I admit I haven't experienced anything like this in my own life/family.

It might be different if it was your own child struggling, but I think you expressed this elegantly and IMHO correctly. Trans people are real. Trans identities are valid. But children need time to grow and learn and discover themselves with parents supporting them, not injecting change into to them.

This is where I land on this too, and I suspect most sensible people feel similarly.

If one ceases taking puberty blockers, does the person then essentially go through puberty? Can the changes to their body be reversed by the introduction of testosterone or estrogen?

My kid's 14, and he is absolutely NOT equipped to make a life-changing decision, but the 15 year old transgendered boy in his Scout Troop seems totally ready and at peace, and I never have questioned his ability to make these decisions for himself. Presumably, his parents feel the same way.

I also don't know if he takes any puberty blockers.

Tiramisu anyone?

Birds in Hell wrote:

Bi_3 wrote:

Rob wrote:I have 3 young kids ranging in age from 5-10, and yea, I've thought about this. I like to think I'm a pretty liberal guy, all I want for my kids is to lead a happy, decent life. I just can't imagine anyone thinking a 10-11 year old child has the capacity to make a decision like this, and therefore it stands to reason (for me) that a parent doesn't have the right, either. I don't doubt there may be children who are transgender, and that beginning the process before puberty could produce a better outcome for that individual, but it seems many of them end up just being homosexual. How is one supposed to know this before a child has had time to mature and actually experience their body? We're talking about an irreversible process here, which may require a lifetime of hormone therapies.

Just my opinion, of course. I admit I haven't experienced anything like this in my own life/family.

It might be different if it was your own child struggling, but I think you expressed this elegantly and IMHO correctly. Trans people are real. Trans identities are valid. But children need time to grow and learn and discover themselves with parents supporting them, not injecting change into to them.

This is where I land on this too, and I suspect most sensible people feel similarly.

I feel this way but am not typically comfortable admitting it in public, though I bet a lot more people feel this way than I'd guess.

B wrote:If one ceases taking puberty blockers, does the person then essentially go through puberty? Can the changes to their body be reversed by the introduction of testosterone or estrogen?

You can't do an RCT on this ethically. Maybe we pay the Chinese to do this on Uiguhrs. Goodness know what else they are doing to them under western funded studies from entities unconcerned about test subjects.

The lack of proper science means all we have are fMRIs and surveys. Not great.