Red Mosquito

dimejinky99 wrote:

spike wrote:

dimejinky99 wrote:Matt eventually did cure pj of their chronic midtempoisis. Got them out of that predictable same verse, prechorus, chorus, verse, bridge, chorus again but bigger, fuck it we’ll figure out the ending live, slump they were in.
He made them stretch muscles they didn’t know they had and in weird ways despite his playing being machine like and a bit robotic but relentless without much feel, particularly in the live situation. He’s feeling it sure, the rest of us, band included, always gasping and barely able to keep up.
Where does such a drummer go in a studio or even songwriting process and how does a band gel or absorb it?
Isn’t to say he didn’t do a whole lot of songs better but he was diminished too.
Puzzles and games is a better and more lively engaging song than what became light years (not to dismiss LY it’s one of their best for my ears) but the pulse and freedom of the earlier version (splashy! It’s splashy!) asks why does everything else have to be so nailed down in PJ studio efforts? It’s all very contrived (the self titled record most of all and painfully so.
)
Listening to the thing we can’t talk about and the rehearsals especially. Where’s that’s band and have they forgotten how good they are at jamming and why don’t they do it anymore onstage or elsewhere?
Get freaky again boys. It’s doesn’t always have to be millisecond sharp and you’re allowed fuck around.


Was it a good thing that he did though? Ultimately? We need the full lost dogs II

Matt’s drumming sucked the life out of the band.

Don’t agree with that at all and I wasn’t clear on that, he’s a brilliant drummer and forced pj into shapes they wouldn’t ever usually find themselves. Love him for that and more and the energy he brought to proceedings no other drummer or person could have.

Matt lacked some groove that both Dave A and Jack had plenty. But he offered sooo much in return. Power, stamina, reliability, creativity. What a drummer for PJ he was! I was a this Werchter show in 2018. It's during this song where I thought. Fuck those who are saying Dave A needs to come back. Where Matt brought most of the Vs/Vitalogy songs is absolutely incredible.

He’s not even trying there. He doesn’t have to.

Maybe that’s the problem.

dimejinky99 wrote:He’s not even trying there. He doesn’t have to.

Maybe that’s the problem.

Nah, at times he had to work harder in PJ than in SG. In an average PJ show some songs are faster or like the last minute here in RVM where he really hits hard. True, SG is more complex rhythmically. But even in that Drumeo interview he shakes his head saying 'No' when the interview confronts him that PJ drumming is easier because is less complex. I still think the main reason he quit is that he probably just grown tired of spending 2–3 months on the road each year (7 months in 2024) , performing 150-minute sets, and so on. For the past six or seven years, he’s been quite outspoken about the heavy duties of touring life in basically every huge interview he did (Zane Lowe, Rick Beato, Rolling Stone,......).

Maybe he plans to do a handful of Soundgarden-related appearances, his new Is This Real? Seattle band, and some side projects and shows. He earned the right to have the life that Krist Novoselic or Kim Thayil has. Just some projects and shows in the Seattle area. And maybe some minor scale tours.

When people say that Matt sucked the life out of PJ I wholeheartly disagree. But I do agree with one thing. In early PJ (when it was still Stone's band) there was a heavy funk groove. Stone had a heavy funk groove in his writing. You again hear that groove in Painted Shield. But that part of PJ, that huge part. That part of Stone's writing really didn't land with Matt Cameron (or post 2000 Eddie). Songs like Evenflow or Animal never really felt right with Matt. But he sounded just f#cking great on all of Eddie's songs (RVM, Porch, Corduroy, NFY) or Jeff's (Jeremy, Why Go, Leash). And blaming Matt for not getting a Jack tune like In my Tree of GTF right? Well, there are no 2 drummers like Jack. Matt got close enough.

Great post. 10/10

Always said pj need the ‘fell on black days’ Matt Cameron. That loose easy playing.

joostone wrote:
Nah, at times he had to work harder in PJ than in SG. In an average PJ show some songs are faster or like the last minute here in RVM where he really hits hard. True, SG is more complex rhythmically. But even in that Drumeo interview he shakes his head saying 'No' when the interview confronts him that PJ drumming is easier because is less complex. I still think the main reason he quit is that he probably just grown tired of spending 2–3 months on the road each year (7 months in 2024) , performing 150-minute sets, and so on. For the past six or seven years, he’s been quite outspoken about the heavy duties of touring life in basically every huge interview he did (Zane Lowe, Rick Beato, Rolling Stone,......).

Maybe he plans to do a handful of Soundgarden-related appearances, his new Is This Real? Seattle band, and some side projects and shows. He earned the right to have the life that Krist Novoselic or Kim Thayil has. Just some projects and shows in the Seattle area. And maybe some minor scale tours.

When people say that Matt sucked the life out of PJ I wholeheartly disagree. But I do agree with one thing. In early PJ (when it was still Stone's band) there was a heavy funk groove. Stone had a heavy funk groove in his writing. You again hear that groove in Painted Shield. But that part of PJ, that huge part. That part of Stone's writing really didn't land with Matt Cameron (or post 2000 Eddie). Songs like Evenflow or Animal never really felt right with Matt. But he sounded just f#cking great on all of Eddie's songs (RVM, Porch, Corduroy, NFY) or Jeff's (Jeremy, Why Go, Leash). And blaming Matt for not getting a Jack tune like In my Tree of GTF right? Well, there are no 2 drummers like Jack. Matt got close enough.

Finally a good post in this thread (stips post was great too)

joostone wrote:
Nah, at times he had to work harder in PJ than in SG. In an average PJ show some songs are faster or like the last minute here in RVM where he really hits hard. True, SG is more complex rhythmically. But even in that Drumeo interview he shakes his head saying 'No' when the interview confronts him that PJ drumming is easier because is less complex. I still think the main reason he quit is that he probably just grown tired of spending 2–3 months on the road each year (7 months in 2024) , performing 150-minute sets, and so on. For the past six or seven years, he’s been quite outspoken about the heavy duties of touring life in basically every huge interview he did (Zane Lowe, Rick Beato, Rolling Stone,......).

Maybe he plans to do a handful of Soundgarden-related appearances, his new Is This Real? Seattle band, and some side projects and shows. He earned the right to have the life that Krist Novoselic or Kim Thayil has. Just some projects and shows in the Seattle area. And maybe some minor scale tours.

When people say that Matt sucked the life out of PJ I wholeheartly disagree. But I do agree with one thing. In early PJ (when it was still Stone's band) there was a heavy funk groove. Stone had a heavy funk groove in his writing. You again hear that groove in Painted Shield. But that part of PJ, that huge part. That part of Stone's writing really didn't land with Matt Cameron (or post 2000 Eddie). Songs like Evenflow or Animal never really felt right with Matt. But he sounded just f#cking great on all of Eddie's songs (RVM, Porch, Corduroy, NFY) or Jeff's (Jeremy, Why Go, Leash). And blaming Matt for not getting a Jack tune like In my Tree of GTF right? Well, there are no 2 drummers like Jack. Matt got close enough.

Finally a good post in this thread (stips post was great too)

Matt Cameron quits Pearl Jam again every time we click on this thread, like an eternal loop

Johnny Turner wrote:

joostone wrote:
Nah, at times he had to work harder in PJ than in SG. In an average PJ show some songs are faster or like the last minute here in RVM where he really hits hard. True, SG is more complex rhythmically. But even in that Drumeo interview he shakes his head saying 'No' when the interview confronts him that PJ drumming is easier because is less complex. I still think the main reason he quit is that he probably just grown tired of spending 2–3 months on the road each year (7 months in 2024) , performing 150-minute sets, and so on. For the past six or seven years, he’s been quite outspoken about the heavy duties of touring life in basically every huge interview he did (Zane Lowe, Rick Beato, Rolling Stone,......).

Maybe he plans to do a handful of Soundgarden-related appearances, his new Is This Real? Seattle band, and some side projects and shows. He earned the right to have the life that Krist Novoselic or Kim Thayil has. Just some projects and shows in the Seattle area. And maybe some minor scale tours.

When people say that Matt sucked the life out of PJ I wholeheartly disagree. But I do agree with one thing. In early PJ (when it was still Stone's band) there was a heavy funk groove. Stone had a heavy funk groove in his writing. You again hear that groove in Painted Shield. But that part of PJ, that huge part. That part of Stone's writing really didn't land with Matt Cameron (or post 2000 Eddie). Songs like Evenflow or Animal never really felt right with Matt. But he sounded just f#cking great on all of Eddie's songs (RVM, Porch, Corduroy, NFY) or Jeff's (Jeremy, Why Go, Leash). And blaming Matt for not getting a Jack tune like In my Tree of GTF right? Well, there are no 2 drummers like Jack. Matt got close enough.

Finally a good post in this thread (stips post was great too)

as someone who had my issues with Matt, I genuinely think he actually improved on the groove of Corduroy; his performance of that song at Reading 2006 was peak for me

it's the slow, groove metal-esque songs with lots of space that were an issue, he didn't have much of an imagination when it came to filling those spaces; that needed chops, chops chops (think Dave A.); I think Soundgarden were an exception to this because the guitars and bass were often chugging, so really the whole band was a triple threat rhythm section; Pearl Jam may have got close to that once or twice (WMA) but they weren't that band in general; if Dave A. hadn't been thrashing around playing groove metal out back, so to speak, I don't know that would have been their sound; so the reason I love Dave A. might be the same reason some hate him

spike wrote:Matt’s drumming sucked the life out of the band.

Good grief. You can't be serious with this nonsense, spike.

Reading a lot of "Matt is the reason for shorter shows".

Good. The 23-25 song shows are better anyway. Ed's voice holds up and they're tighter. Some of those 35+ song shows are "epic" but not great quality IMO. The bootlegs are borderline unlistenable.

injuddstree wrote:Reading a lot of "Matt is the reason for shorter shows".

Good. The 23-25 song shows are better anyway. Ed's voice holds up and they're tighter. Some of those 35+ song shows are "epic" but not great quality IMO. The bootlegs are borderline unlistenable.

Agreed 100%. They started getting too crazy with the number of cover songs in a set too - 2-3 is fine but 5 or more starts getting silly.

the stretch of shows from 22-25 I saw (8 total) were the best ive seen since 06

stip wrote:the stretch of shows from 22-25 I saw (8 total) were the best ive seen since 06

Same!

Well, I caught 4 shows total from this tour, but I agree on them being at their very best since '06.

Buby wrote:

stip wrote:the stretch of shows from 22-25 I saw (8 total) were the best ive seen since 06

Same!

Well, I caught 4 shows total from this tour, but I agree on them being at their very best since '06.

I would agree, but I’d say ‘08. Didn’t see them in ‘06.

wease wrote:

Buby wrote:

stip wrote:the stretch of shows from 22-25 I saw (8 total) were the best ive seen since 06

Same!

Well, I caught 4 shows total from this tour, but I agree on them being at their very best since '06.

I would agree, but I’d say ‘08. Didn’t see them in ‘06.

yeah I saw 4 in that span too, and I thought the same thing. 2008 at least. Maybe 2006.

I will stand up for the 2016 shows

Kalevi wrote:I will stand up for the 2016 shows

Yeah they were pretty damn good

Really only some brutal shows from 2008-2012 or so. Things got better around 2016 and the last two tours were pretty great, eds older voice be damned.

They really were out of gas after the 06 tour. Dont blame them for taking some time off and phoning it in.

They've been pretty lights out since 2018 IMO. 2016 tour had some good shows too.