Red Mosquito

It is nice to see some fresh meat added to the long-raging discussion around these parts. We need more of this guys....

Everyone has been through it so many times, it had become stale for all of us, I think.

New individuals posting about such topics is a good thing

As for my two cents on Avocado..... It's basically a missed opportunity. Could have been great as a thought-out, connected, themed album with a underlying storyline. But, then I think they all got lazy, wanted a "return to form", and made shitty production decisions. The songs are much better than they are on the album, and as we have seen from the leaked demos, they left a whole bunch on the table that could have potentially made it great.

I really don't think this will go the way of Binaural & Riot Act, which both grew into being generally applauded by long time fans despite initial frustration with the direction. I think this will always be the album where they began their "later" years, with less than ideal results.

I think every album has it's high points and low points, but I listen to each for different reasons.

Django Butterworth wrote:I think every album has it's high points and low points, but I listen to each for different reasons.

Good point, same here. For example, I listen to Backspacer when I want to stab my ears with a pen.

If that's the case, I feel bad for you.

Django Butterworth wrote:If that's the case, I feel bad for you.

I got 99 problems

Django Butterworth wrote:If you are listening to a McCready penned tune for lyrics, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

As one of RM's minority who thinks lyrics are usually integrally important to any song that features them, the logic that you should suffer any song's poor ones simply because their writer oughtn't be expected to do any better is silly. Writing bad lyrics is usually a step along the way to writing good ones, so I don't begrudge the novice songwriter his learning experiences, but as a song by a professional rock band on album that I paid money to own, "Inside Job" does not pull its weight.

Django Butterworth wrote:If you are listening to a McCready penned tune for lyrics, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

The way I see it, if the band puts the song out there, it's open to scrutiny. Why should the lyrics get a pass?

I find fixating on lyrics to be an overall uninteresting way to approach music but "Inside Job" is remarkable for how bad those lyrics are (and how tedious the music is, but that's a whole other topic).

"Big Wave" doesn't really bother me. They're silly words befitting a bouncy punk song (that gratuitous "can't you see" notwithstanding). The words to "Inside Job" are presented like this grand, profound expression of redemption, but they come off sounding like something that belongs on the back of a neon purple Trapper Keeper folder.

The lyrics don't get a pass. I just think that the music is strong enough that I don't really mind them.

Django Butterworth wrote:The lyrics don't get a pass. I just think that the music is strong enough that I don't really mind them.

I'm with you on Inside Job. I like the music enough that I don't pay attention to the lyrics.

It's Avocado's version of You Are.

Now that's a song with sorta clunky lyrics that I don't mind.

I do not care for Inside Job.

theplatypus wrote:Now that's a song with sorta clunky lyrics that I don't mind.

I very much enjoy You Are.

E.H. Ruddock wrote:

tommymtcom wrote:

cutuphalfdead wrote:No they aren't. Big Wave's are supposed to be silly lyrics about surfing. Inside Job's are supposed to be super deep and about life, man.

Yeah, bad lyrics are much easier to swallow when they aren't meant to be super sincere. Inside Job easily has the worst lyrics of any Pearl Jam song (including Leash)

you are forgetting about Amongst The Waves, Unthought Known, and Barack Around the Clock.

The lyrics for amongst the waves and unthought known are also pretty good, albeit uneven. There are some really nice, striking moments in UK, and the ATW chorus is a bit obvious at this point in their career, and not that interesting, but the verses are really strong, I think. I love the flow of the melody and the wordplay is clever.

Brett wrote:Eh, I think most of us are Pearl Jam fans to some extent or another. Most of us just have a hard time with certain albums, though. Stip, of all people, should be able to relate. After all, he dislikes all of the albums between Vitalogy and Avocado. The rest of us seem to think their weaker period is more recent.

I like all the albums between Vitalogy and Avocado. But if I didn't, I could probably refrain from trashing them every chance I get.

Kevin Davis wrote:

Django Butterworth wrote:If you are listening to a McCready penned tune for lyrics, I honestly don't know what to tell you.

As one of RM's minority who thinks lyrics are usually integrally important to any song that features them, the logic that you should suffer any song's poor ones simply because their writer oughtn't be expected to do any better is silly. Writing bad lyrics is usually a step along the way to writing good ones, so I don't begrudge the novice songwriter his learning experiences, but as a song by a professional rock band on album that I paid money to own, "Inside Job" does not pull its weight.

I think this may be the teacher in me, but I give the lyrics to inside job something of a pass (I agree they're bad) because they are a really sincere attempt by someone to express something powerful in a medium they aren't comfortable with. He fails, but I'm happy to applaud the effort. Yes, it's a song by a professional rock band, but it's featuring an amateur lyricist.

The condescending version of that post is that the band included inside job with Mike lyrics for the same reason I hang my daughter's artwork on the fridge.

I enjoy Big Wave's lyrics and don't think there's anything bad about them. I think Ed was stoned and wrote about how surfing makes him feel, and it's awesome.

Maybe I used to be a crustacean........

@SkitchP wrote:

theplatypus wrote:Now that's a song with sorta clunky lyrics that I don't mind.

I very much enjoy You Are.

Me too.

As do I. But much the same as Inside Job, the lyrics aren't quite there.

And I don't think McCready fails here, it was good enough to make the record.