Bowie - Blackstar (2016) & RIP David Bowie :(

[LoathedVermin72]

Man I love Artpop. Don't get why everyone thinks it's her worst.

[Mecca]

Man I love Artpop. Don't get why everyone thinks it's her worst.

it kinda is, but it doesn't mean it isn't good; its just in comparison to the first few albums

[LoathedVermin72]

Man I love Artpop. Don't get why everyone thinks it's her worst.

it kinda is, but it doesn't mean it isn't good; its just in comparison to the first few albums

It's easily my favorite of hers. It's much "harsher" and more electronic. I actually each album of hers is better than the last.

[Leatherhead]

I was talking about after it was announced she was doing the tribute.
Scepticism about the choice was dismissed as bias against her and ignorance of her talents. Ironically it turned out bias was on the other side. I wouldn't have expected Lady Gaga to be such a sacred cow here.

I think the reasons why she was considered a particularly good choice were superficial and didn't make much justice to Bowie nor her. I think the credentials that are supposed to give her artistic substance are vastly overstated and mean less in practice than they are supposed to on paper. Technical skills get overstated because they're measurable but they don't make someone better or worse in practice because other factors tend to be decisive in determining success. Song writing quality isn't defined by it's complexity as singing isn't by how technically polished it is yet when they are discussed it often reverts to just that reasoning. It's kind of how it is with Lady Gaga, she's supposed to have an advantage in theory that isn't there in practice because she's practically just a performer now. Her commercial and critical appeal as a recording artist and songwriter dropped exponentially and as of now never recovered which is common for pop stars that aren't considered nearly as talented as she is.

She is the age Bowie was in 1977 and it's just astonishing what a body of work he created by the time he was 30.

It seems very odd to me that you seem to be quite set on convincing others she's crap, much more odd than any kind of defense in her favor.

[Mine]

I was talking about after it was announced she was doing the tribute.
Scepticism about the choice was dismissed as bias against her and ignorance of her talents. Ironically it turned out bias was on the other side. I wouldn't have expected Lady Gaga to be such a sacred cow here.

I think the reasons why she was considered a particularly good choice were superficial and didn't make much justice to Bowie nor her. I think the credentials that are supposed to give her artistic substance are vastly overstated and mean less in practice than they are supposed to on paper. Technical skills get overstated because they're measurable but they don't make someone better or worse in practice because other factors tend to be decisive in determining success. Song writing quality isn't defined by it's complexity as singing isn't by how technically polished it is yet when they are discussed it often reverts to just that reasoning. It's kind of how it is with Lady Gaga, she's supposed to have an advantage in theory that isn't there in practice because she's practically just a performer now. Her commercial and critical appeal as a recording artist and songwriter dropped exponentially and as of now never recovered which is common for pop stars that aren't considered nearly as talented as she is.

She is the age Bowie was in 1977 and it's just astonishing what a body of work he created by the time he was 30.

It seems very odd to me that you seem to be quite set on convincing others she's crap, much more odd than any kind of defense in her favor.

I wasn't in anyway even implying she is crap. Just because i point out some flaws and say she might be overrated in some respects doesn't mean i think she's crap.

[Mine]

in the span of 8 years people kinda stopped buying albums, unless you consider someone like taylor swift who took their music off streaming sites and wasn't available (prior to apple music) without download. I'm not saying Artpop was actually really good, but she's far from out of favor. I do agree she's more of a performer as a whole, but you seem to imply she lacked the talent as a pop star, which just seems absurd.

It's not so much that people stopped buying records in the last 8 years as much as that her debut sold absurdly well by current standards.
My argument about the parallel drop in sells and critical reception was just that. She didn't become more of a critical darling as her record sells went down as to indicate her work became more challenging. And it's again a relative argument because when she started she was considered extremely promising as a creative force even more so than a performer.
Right before she started concentrating on the performing with Bennett and the rest and acting she was not in a particularly good space in her career. That move did wonders for her career but she's way too young for this to be a viable long term career path.

What does having or lacking talent even means? It's such a vague term that arguing someone lacks it makes it idiotic by default. No, what i was saying is that the credentials that are supposed to give her advantage over other pop starts ultimately don't. It's not implying she lacks talent, but that she is more different than she is better than her peers in practice.
I'm probably also one of the few people who gives substantial credit to singers for their talents as performers and the role they have in making music appealing, so i'm not even implying her being mainly a performer makes her a lesser talent in that regard.

There are also far better examples of people dismissed as lacking talent, with monstrous careers that prove otherwise, than Gaga.

[LetMeSleep]

I think Lorde did a good job at the Brits. She was shaky for the first minute but she really stepped up. You could feel her performance. Plus I love the shit out of that song.

The musicianship of that medley was outstanding, just freaking jaw dropping.

[Mine]

The medley was done well, it did help that it was instrumental apart from the sporadic back vocals.
Bowie's estate seems to like this one.

[Kevin Davis]

It was certainly more tasteful than Gaga's, but man, I really, really hate Lorde's voice.

[tragabigzanda]

Top 10 maybe?
Hello Morning
Close Captioned
The Kill
Place/Position
Do You Like Me?
Latest Disgrace
Recap Modotti
Nightshop
Break
Life & Limb

I'd maybe bump Life & Limb for Epic Problem

[Norah]

Big fan of this song:

[@SkitchP]

Man I love Artpop. Don't get why everyone thinks it's her worst.

it kinda is, but it doesn't mean it isn't good; its just in comparison to the first few albums

It's easily my favorite of hers. It's much "harsher" and more electronic. I actually each album of hers is better than the last.

I think Just Dance is a tremendous pop song. I agree with Chuds assessment of the Grammys tribute though.

[Norah]

Man I love Artpop. Don't get why everyone thinks it's her worst.

it kinda is, but it doesn't mean it isn't good; its just in comparison to the first few albums

It's easily my favorite of hers. It's much "harsher" and more electronic. I actually each album of hers is better than the last.

I think Just Dance is a tremendous pop song. I agree with Chuds assessment of the Grammys tribute though.

It's kind of insane how good Just Dance is.

[Kevin Davis]

I'm pretty excited. I can just tell I'm going to love discovering this man's work.

I'm so excited for you, buddy. I can't wait to hear your thoughts.

Well, here they are: Every one of these damn albums is a damn treasure! The "Ziggy" tracks left me a little underwhelmed on the best-of, but the album is such a beautiful listen from beginning to end -- and I haven't even started trying to follow the "concept." Of the four I'd say "Ziggy" and "Low" are my two favorites, with "Station to Station" and "Heroes" just a notch below, and all are about ten times better than "Young Americans," which I nonetheless plan to revisit soon.

I ordered "Aladdin Sane" and "Lodger" (to complete the Berlin trilogy) for my next steps into Bowie-world.

[LoathedVermin72]

Lodger might be a bit of a shock.

[Kevin Davis]

I already listened to it on YouTube -- I liked it a lot (at least in a "first impression" sort of way).

[surfndestroy]

I ordered "Aladdin Sane" and "Lodger" (to complete the Berlin trilogy) for my next steps into Bowie-world.

I've never understood why Station To Station isn't included as part of the Berlin Trilogy. From a geographic point of view I can see why but sonically, Station To Station started the Berlin Trilogy phase.

One thing I appreciate about Bowie's catalogue is that he has seen multiple sounds though multiple albums. Imagine if Pearl Jam explored the Binaural sounds for another 2 or 3 albums. Refining it and just plain getting better at it with each record.

[Mecca]

Man I love Artpop. Don't get why everyone thinks it's her worst.

it kinda is, but it doesn't mean it isn't good; its just in comparison to the first few albums

It's easily my favorite of hers. It's much "harsher" and more electronic. I actually each album of hers is better than the last.

I think Just Dance is a tremendous pop song. I agree with Chuds assessment of the Grammys tribute though.

Just Dance and Tik Tok always sounded like they run parallel to each other in some ways

[epilogue]

Hunky Dory is still my all time favorite from Bowie. Ziggy is a close second (and maybe even #1 depending on my mood/the day). Black Star is right up there, though. God, I fucking LOVE that record.

[Kevin Davis]

I was kind of tentatively eyeing "Hunky Dory" and "Scary Monsters" as my third round of Bowie purchases.