Red Mosquito

stip wrote:

Soma. wrote:Oh also they're as creatively erratic as your good friend Billy Corgan: They don't give a shit, they'll just do it. I have loads of respect for that.

I'm not sure why you think I'm obsessed with Billy Corgan. I think Siamese Dream is amazing. I think Mellon Collie is mostly amazing. I like adore. I think Machina has a few good songs on it, and everything from then on is basically horrible. I'm not sure I've ever seen such an enormous decline in ability from one artist.

You have to appreciate that you put more weight in lyrics and vocals than the average bear, right? The "new" Pumpkins songs I enjoy get by on that MBV-big muff distortion-Siamese Dream guitar tone. You can't fuck with that in my humble opinion. If I wanted to be floored by a wordsmith I'd listen to Dylan or read the poetry of the greats.

To continue this from the LB thread: I love the over-long immersiveness of this album; I generally have wished for a long time that more bands would make more quality long, expansive records than they do these days. Arcade Fire are the kind of band capable of delivering that, and they have here. Generally, I love that it combines the catchiness of Arcade Fire rock / electro / disco with the epic sweep of post-rock. I love that there are instrumental pieces in amongst the songs. The album is so much more than a collection of songs. Everyone knows by now that I love concepts behind the music, and that lyrics and ideas can lift songs themselves for me, but I appreciate that not everyone is this way inclined. Personally I love Arcade Fire for some of the same reasons I've loved Pearl Jam, namely the subjects they deal with. Since Neon Bible I've loved Win Butler's take on theology (I think he studied it?), spirituality, fundamentalist dogma and politics etc. Whereas Neon Bible was a very American album in that sense, this one takes influence from African carnival, folk religion and spirituality, belief in possession via music etc. Musically, Win Butler has talked about the album being inspired by African carnival, drum troupes etc. and how belief is so intertwined with that. So to me, it's an epic expansion on Neon Bible, which makes those subjects global rather than American. I've always been really interested in African culture too, so all of that thrown into the same pot pretty much guarantees that this album will get me pretty excited. It's pretty reminiscent of Paul Simon's Graceland, in that it's a Western "popular music" take on African ideas and traditions. I can't say for sure, but even Regine's French additions to 'Joan of Arc' seem to agree with the concept, considering French is the official language of so many African countries. I can't wait to get the lyric booklet so that I can confirm this.

Look I'm not saying this is a bad record. This is basically creating music in a style I generally am not interested in, fronted by a singer whose voice is not likely to create that interest for me. I really didn't like it, but I can recognize that, as someone who this isn't aiming for, I'm not in a place to really speak to its quality.

Other than the little live affectations, which are, dare I say it, actually cringe-worthy.


While I do often ike Regina's backing vocals, a Bryne/Tweedy mish mash of vocal sensibilities with a Ween/Beatles approach to song writing and Brian Eno textures is hardly going to light me up.

Actually, I think I'd like most of the Eno stuff on there too (I did like Reflektor, which is drowning in it), if I liked the underlying song structures (I mostly don't) and the vocals (I mostly don't) more than I do. The textures were often the most interesting parts of the song.


This will probably get a few background listens at work, and maybe one or two others will sink in.

harmless wrote:I can't wait to get the lyric booklet so that I can confirm this.

Great post, my man. Do you have any time for Stuart Copeland, the Police's drummer? He was heavily influenced by the immensely unique African rhythms and it really showed in his work with The Police and Oysterhead.

stip wrote:so what do people like about this album? What are others hearing that I'm not?

Some hightlights for me:
How the contrast of moods in Here Comes The Night Time going from dramatic/tense to seemingly happy work so wonderfully. And then the release of all tension in the part from 4:20 onwards. Lovely bass there.
The chorus of Normal Person and how it gets intenser every time.
How all the voices work together in the Joan Of Arc chorus and just the chorus itself. It's glorious.
The verse music for Awful sound. I like that stumbly bassline together with the percussion and how the guitars create color here. Almost puts me in trance. And then it goes from this "sadly stumbling through the night"-music to that kind of hopeful part at 3:00. I love that.
Everything of Afterlife especially the chorus and how Win and Regine sing together here.

Overall I really like this dark disco vibe all over the album mixed with Win's vocals which I generally enjoy very much. His melodies are very good in almost every song. The album never feels overlong to me. I also really love bass guitar and interesting percussion so the album wins there as well. It's driven by rythm and the other instrument bring beautiful color to the songs.

stip wrote:Look I'm not saying this is a bad record. This is basically creating music in a style I generally am not interested in, fronted by a singer whose voice is not likely to create that interest for me. I really didn't like it, but I can recognize that, as someone who this isn't aiming for, I'm not in a place to really speak to its quality.

Other than the little live affectations, which are, dare I say it, actually cringe-worthy.


While I do often ike Regina's backing vocals, a Bryne/Tweedy mish mash of vocal sensibilities with a Ween/Beatles approach to song writing and Brian Eno textures is hardly going to light me up.

Actually, I think I'd like most of the Eno stuff on there too (I did like Reflektor, which is drowning in it), if I liked the underlying song structures (I mostly don't) and the vocals (I mostly don't) more than I do. The textures were often the most interesting parts of the song.


This will probably get a few background listens at work, and maybe one or two others will sink in.

So you're nearing the realization that you're simply a lost cause who is good with words. I can dig.

Tongue in cheek and stuff.

The "little live affectations" were like African street crowds, right? I've only listened to it twice but I think so. Maybe one or two were concert crowds but I can't remember.

Soma. wrote:

stip wrote:

Soma. wrote:Oh also they're as creatively erratic as your good friend Billy Corgan: They don't give a shit, they'll just do it. I have loads of respect for that.

I'm not sure why you think I'm obsessed with Billy Corgan. I think Siamese Dream is amazing. I think Mellon Collie is mostly amazing. I like adore. I think Machina has a few good songs on it, and everything from then on is basically horrible. I'm not sure I've ever seen such an enormous decline in ability from one artist.

You have to appreciate that you put more weight in lyrics and vocals than the average bear, right? The "new" Pumpkins songs I enjoy get by on that MBV-big muff distortion-Siamese Dream guitar tone. You can't fuck with that in my humble opinion. If I wanted to be floored by a wordsmith I'd listen to Dylan or read the poetry of the greats.

Some of the guitar stuff is fine, but the huge wall of distortion only works sometimes for me. I don't remember what I said about oceania when it came out, but I remember also being pretty unimpressed with the songwriting, and Billy Corgan's voice is just utterly utterly horrible right now. Utterly beyond the pale. Incapable of salvation. It's not like he was ever good in the traditional sense, but he had this sense that all of his songs were being sung by the pleading angel and angry demon on his shoulder. Now it's just some combination of nails on a chalkboard and whiny caterwauling, and mo amount of distortion is going to save that. This stuff was dead in the water before I can even get to 'we are starz'

They could've so easily just teamed up with this LCD Soundsystem guy to make a cheesy disco record, but I don't think that's what this is. I think they got him on board so that he could help them achieve what they wanted from this African music concept.

harmless wrote:The "little live affectations" were like African street crowds, right? I've only listened to it twice but I think so. Maybe one or two were concert crowds but I can't remember.

well they are crowds from somewhere. It's still pretty stupid. That's the only thing here I'm gonna attack as just flat out bad, rather than something that doesn't appeal to me.

harmless wrote:They could've so easily just teamed up with this LCD Soundsystem guy to make a cheesy disco record, but I don't think that's what this is. I think they got him on board so that he could help them achieve what they wanted from this African music concept.

I like how the disco part seems intentionally a little bit cheesy to contrast the rest of the song.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:The "little live affectations" were like African street crowds, right? I've only listened to it twice but I think so. Maybe one or two were concert crowds but I can't remember.

well they are crowds from somewhere. It's still pretty stupid. That's the only thing here I'm gonna attack as just flat out bad, rather than something that doesn't appeal to me.

How is it stupid, given the inspiration for the album? I guess you just maybe flat out don't care about how that works, conceptually, in which case... your loss, but that's OK.

Mike wrote:

harmless wrote:They could've so easily just teamed up with this LCD Soundsystem guy to make a cheesy disco record, but I don't think that's what this is. I think they got him on board so that he could help them achieve what they wanted from this African music concept.

I like how the disco part seems intentionally a little bit cheesy to contrast the rest of the song.

Yeah, there's a real serious darkness which goes up against the cheesy, poppy lightness. Which again (sorry for banging on about this) is what African music (traditional and modern / popular) is all about, as far as I've gathered.

Alright, that's enough for now.

I have a new rival.

The only thing that doesn't go with my concept idea is that I think I heard Jonathan Ross announce Arcade Fire at one point.

stip wrote:

harmless wrote:The "little live affectations" were like African street crowds, right? I've only listened to it twice but I think so. Maybe one or two were concert crowds but I can't remember.

well they are crowds from somewhere. It's still pretty stupid. That's the only thing here I'm gonna attack as just flat out bad, rather than something that doesn't appeal to me.

Are you talking about the beginning of You Already Know? I always have to laugh when that song begins and I think that was the intention. THE FANTASTIC ARCAADE FAAAIAAA *quirky bassline* *cheering*.

I thought that was a kind of piss take on the Top of the Pops style of broadcasting. Is that off base?

Soma. wrote:I thought that was a kind of piss take on the Top of the Pops style of broadcasting. Is that off base?

Nope, probably not. I just find it funny that I recognised the voice and I'm pretty sure it's Jonathan Ross.

That's what I thought. It's so wonderfully over the top.