Dark Matter: Official Album Thread

[Ms Harmless]

This is one of the reasons that certain songs we go back to at a later date sometimes just click for us. At some point we may be in a mental space to appreciate the song on its own terms. But this requires a willingness to go back with an actual open mind. Not always easy.

I'm pretty sure "All or None" wasn't always my slam dunk favorite PJ song of them all. One day, I realized it was one of several waltzes by them, and that raised its stock. Then I went through phases of life that raised its stock some more, and then one day it just clicked that the song has everything I have ever wanted from the band.

that second verse / chorus sung in a higher octave

[stip]

online forums encourage performative outrage as well.

[RockPusher]

This is one of the reasons that certain songs we go back to at a later date sometimes just click for us. At some point we may be in a mental space to appreciate the song on its own terms. But this requires a willingness to go back with an actual open mind. Not always easy.

I'm pretty sure "All or None" wasn't always my slam dunk favorite PJ song of them all. One day, I realized it was one of several waltzes by them, and that raised its stock. Then I went through phases of life that raised its stock some more, and then one day it just clicked that the song has everything I have ever wanted from the band.

that second verse / chorus sung in a higher octave

GodDamn it's a good one to sing along with!

(also recommend How To Disappear Completely by Radiohead and The Rip by Portishead)

[Ms Harmless]

This is one of the reasons that certain songs we go back to at a later date sometimes just click for us. At some point we may be in a mental space to appreciate the song on its own terms. But this requires a willingness to go back with an actual open mind. Not always easy.

I'm pretty sure "All or None" wasn't always my slam dunk favorite PJ song of them all. One day, I realized it was one of several waltzes by them, and that raised its stock. Then I went through phases of life that raised its stock some more, and then one day it just clicked that the song has everything I have ever wanted from the band.

that second verse / chorus sung in a higher octave

GodDamn it's a good one to sing along with!

(also recommend How To Disappear Completely by Radiohead and The Rip by Portishead)

yes

[RockPusher]

online forums encourage performative outrage as well.

It's not easy to disengage at times, which is really counterproductive for everyone lol

[Hypnos]

It's interesting that when a band is young or new, no one gives a damn about the producers. That only comes up when the band has a long history and is trying to reinvent itself or find a new sound.

[Ledbetterdays]

I have been thinking a lot lately about the transition from fanatic to critic. One might say that The Pit is more of a fanatic forum and RM is more of a critic forum. Fanaticism is generally associated with youth and criticism with age. So I have always found it interesting that Star Wars and Pearl Jam have a kind of similar toxicity as someone mentioned earlier. They both cover multiple generations, eras, and producers.

The more art you can consume the more ability you have to fairly critique the artist. The point of entrance into a catalog of art also matters. If Riot Act was your first Pearl Jam album how do you reflect on what came after? Is that different from someone whose first album was Ten? I think there is a sort of spectrum between these two extremes and it is interesting to me what pushes and pulls people either way. Nostalgia, emotion, experience, taste, age, technology, etc. for both the artist and the consumer.

I hear you, but I also feel like this tracks the typical descent into bitterness that is very common as people get older, and I don't think that needs to be a given. I also feel like the more bitter/cynical a person has become, the less likely they are to connect with a sappy, earnest ballad from one Mr. Ed Severson III.

For me personally, as a lifelong fan of Star Wars and a fan of PJ for their entire career, I find that the toxic fan part of me comes out a bit with SW but not much for PJ, and I think to some here that translates as an unwillingness to be critical of this band or see faults.

It's just weird because they don't owe me anything personally. They should just make the art they want to make and of course everything is inevitably weighed against the past peaks and valleys. I have just been around long enough to see things I was once fanatic about become much more easily criticized and that is maybe where the cynicism comes in.

It's also funny in a way because JJ Abrams was a big Star Wars fan who came in to restart the franchise and now we have Wotman a big PJ fan with nowhere near the same level of pressure but a lot of eyes on him.

[digster]

look, I am not saying future days is a masterpiece. But there is not a ton of daylight between sirens and black and the reaction from folks who cant hear the sirens seems (to me) to be grounded at least partially in problems with the thematic shifts - one is hopeless and one is sentimental. both are incredibly melodramatic songs, but one is acceptable in the conventional pearl jam narrative. these posts reinforcing that happen all the time.

RMers like to declare that there taste exists in a vacumn completely unfettered and unencumbered by the history and expectations we bring to the music. expectations that are deep and nuanced and formative and powerful and real. Thats how brains work. its how we use hurestics to form initial opinoons (which we cannovercome but it takes time and effort. I think this is one of the big ones, and Ive watched people manifest it on RM for twenty years (as well as the attendant denial - the fiction that we can ever approach pearl jam with a blank slate)

I mean, sure. Everyone brings their preconceptions, biases, preferences and years of listening to this and every other band to bear when listening to these songs. But at some point, I think people are able to craft opinions out of those preferences on what makes a good song.

And every band isn't capable of writing every kind of song at an equal level; if someone hears all the PJ songs in this so-called sentimental vein and finds them wanting, maybe they just have some mental hurdle that can't be overcome. Or maybe it's that, for them, Pearl Jam isn't capable of throwing that particular pitch.

Take No Code, for example; would you say, for you, that they're writing songs on that album that you don't feel play to their particular strengths, or is that album full of great songs you're not able to appreciate because it doesn't fit what you want out of PJ?

[Ms Harmless]

It's interesting that when a band is young or new, no one gives a damn about the producers. That only comes up when the band has a long history and is trying to reinvent itself or find a new sound.

well, yes in a way, but something happened to BO'B since the beautiful records of the 90s, there's no denying it

he's a monster who I wouldn't let near my children

[RockPusher]

It's interesting that when a band is young or new, no one gives a damn about the producers. That only comes up when the band has a long history and is trying to reinvent itself or find a new sound.

well, yes in a way, but something happened to BO'B since the beautiful records of the 90s, there's no denying it

he's a monster who I wouldn't let near my children

Yeah- he was a perfectly fine producer through what, 1998?

[Ms Harmless]

It's interesting that when a band is young or new, no one gives a damn about the producers. That only comes up when the band has a long history and is trying to reinvent itself or find a new sound.

well, yes in a way, but something happened to BO'B since the beautiful records of the 90s, there's no denying it

he's a monster who I wouldn't let near my children

Yeah- he was a perfect find producer through what, 1998?

an absolute miracle, so good and their go-to guy for several years

[RockPusher]

It's also funny in a way because JJ Abrams was a big Star Wars fan who came in to restart the franchise and now we have Wotman a big PJ fan with nowhere near the same level of pressure but a lot of eyes on him.

You've nailed it. Because I have become more jaded with regards to SW content, I let the inner critic fly with JJ Abrams, whereas with Watt, I'm far more open-minded because at some deep level I still connect so much with the earnestness of Pearl Jam.

[Ledbetterdays]

look, I am not saying future days is a masterpiece. But there is not a ton of daylight between sirens and black and the reaction from folks who cant hear the sirens seems (to me) to be grounded at least partially in problems with the thematic shifts - one is hopeless and one is sentimental. both are incredibly melodramatic songs, but one is acceptable in the conventional pearl jam narrative. these posts reinforcing that happen all the time.

RMers like to declare that there taste exists in a vacumn completely unfettered and unencumbered by the history and expectations we bring to the music. expectations that are deep and nuanced and formative and powerful and real. Thats how brains work. its how we use hurestics to form initial opinoons (which we cannovercome but it takes time and effort. I think this is one of the big ones, and Ive watched people manifest it on RM for twenty years (as well as the attendant denial - the fiction that we can ever approach pearl jam with a blank slate)

I mean, sure. Everyone brings their preconceptions, biases, preferences and years of listening to this and every other band to bear when listening to these songs. But at some point, I think people are able to craft opinions out of those preferences on what makes a good song.

And every band isn't capable of writing every kind of song at an equal level; if someone hears all the PJ songs in this so-called sentimental vein and finds them wanting, maybe they just have some mental hurdle that can't be overcome. Or maybe it's that, for them, Pearl Jam isn't capable of throwing that particular pitch.

Take No Code, for example; would you say, for you, that they're writing songs on that album that you don't feel play to their particular strengths, or is that album full of great songs you're not able to appreciate because it doesn't fit what you want out of PJ?

I sometimes wonder if this is what has made Pearl Jam's later career more lackluster commercially. There are a lot of fans who like Sirens, Future Days, Just Breathe, etc. and those seem to be Ed's influence and also the only thing that has resonated on the charts up until Dark Matter. Trying to be punk, rock, pop, has maybe diluted what Pearl Jam could be with more focus, or its just what makes them unique.

If Pearl Jam made a whole album of Sirens type songs what would happen? Would they be universally shunned or would it be viewed as more accessible to the mainstream? It's a weird spot to operate from.

[unLEASHed]

I have been thinking a lot lately about the transition from fanatic to critic. One might say that The Pit is more of a fanatic forum and RM is more of a critic forum. Fanaticism is generally associated with youth and criticism with age. So I have always found it interesting that Star Wars and Pearl Jam have a kind of similar toxicity as someone mentioned earlier. They both cover multiple generations, eras, and producers.

The more art you can consume the more ability you have to fairly critique the artist. The point of entrance into a catalog of art also matters. If Riot Act was your first Pearl Jam album how do you reflect on what came after? Is that different from someone whose first album was Ten? I think there is a sort of spectrum between these two extremes and it is interesting to me what pushes and pulls people either way. Nostalgia, emotion, experience, taste, age, technology, etc. for both the artist and the consumer.

I am still more of a fanatic when it comes to the live shows, but the last album I was fanatical about was Yield. I am much less fanatical about the band members. So I find myself with lots of passes for their show mistakes, and much less for their recorded ones.

This may be the only musician I have this duality with because for most other bands I do not have this kind of history with 20 shows over 18 years and soon to be 12 albums.

Im younger than most here, so the first album I connected with and still my favourite was Binaural…I knew the band, heard ten and vs before, love them, but that is not “my type of pearl jam”, that album clicked with me when I was 14 years old, thats how my fandom began.

It is always subjective and always an emotional connection I think…For years I wanted another album like Binaural, dark themed, brooding, lots of texture in the songs…the thing is, they already did Binaural, and Ten, and No Code, and so on, until 2020, they hadnt done anything like DOTC…thats pretty cool for a 30 year old band. They never did exacly what we expected them to do, even in the early years. They never did the same album twice, they also didnt go full prog rock on us, and thats ok, they did what they wanted to do.

From a big picture point of view its a big menu of different tastes, and that is cool, especially for a band who likes to spin things up live.

[Buby]

I have been thinking a lot lately about the transition from fanatic to critic. One might say that The Pit is more of a fanatic forum and RM is more of a critic forum. Fanaticism is generally associated with youth and criticism with age. So I have always found it interesting that Star Wars and Pearl Jam have a kind of similar toxicity as someone mentioned earlier. They both cover multiple generations, eras, and producers.

The more art you can consume the more ability you have to fairly critique the artist. The point of entrance into a catalog of art also matters. If Riot Act was your first Pearl Jam album how do you reflect on what came after? Is that different from someone whose first album was Ten? I think there is a sort of spectrum between these two extremes and it is interesting to me what pushes and pulls people either way. Nostalgia, emotion, experience, taste, age, technology, etc. for both the artist and the consumer.

I am still more of a fanatic when it comes to the live shows, but the last album I was fanatical about was Yield. I am much less fanatical about the band members. So I find myself with lots of passes for their show mistakes, and much less for their recorded ones.

This may be the only musician I have this duality with because for most other bands I do not have this kind of history with 20 shows over 18 years and soon to be 12 albums.

Im younger than most here, so the first album I connected with and still my favourite was Binaural…I knew the band, heard ten and vs before, love them, but that is not “my type of pearl jam”, that album clicked with me when I was 14 years old, thats how my fandom began.

It is always subjective and always an emotional connection I think…For years I wanted another album like Binaural, dark themed, brooding, lots of texture in the songs…the thing is, they already did Binaural, and Ten, and No Code, and so on, until 2020, they hadnt done anything like DOTC…thats pretty cool for a 30 year old band. They never did exacly what we expected them to do, even in the early years. They never did the same album twice, they also didnt go full prog rock on us, and thats ok, they did what they wanted to do.

From a big picture point of view its a big menu of different tastes, and that is cool, especially for a band who likes to spin things up live.

Excellent POV.

[RockPusher]

I think we have reached the perspective-laden calm before the storm portion of this thread.

[stip]

look, I am not saying future days is a masterpiece. But there is not a ton of daylight between sirens and black and the reaction from folks who cant hear the sirens seems (to me) to be grounded at least partially in problems with the thematic shifts - one is hopeless and one is sentimental. both are incredibly melodramatic songs, but one is acceptable in the conventional pearl jam narrative. these posts reinforcing that happen all the time.

RMers like to declare that there taste exists in a vacumn completely unfettered and unencumbered by the history and expectations we bring to the music. expectations that are deep and nuanced and formative and powerful and real. Thats how brains work. its how we use hurestics to form initial opinoons (which we cannovercome but it takes time and effort. I think this is one of the big ones, and Ive watched people manifest it on RM for twenty years (as well as the attendant denial - the fiction that we can ever approach pearl jam with a blank slate)

I mean, sure. Everyone brings their preconceptions, biases, preferences and years of listening to this and every other band to bear when listening to these songs. But at some point, I think people are able to craft opinions out of those preferences on what makes a good song.

And every band isn't capable of writing every kind of song at an equal level; if someone hears all the PJ songs in this so-called sentimental vein and finds them wanting, maybe they just have some mental hurdle that can't be overcome. Or maybe it's that, for them, Pearl Jam isn't capable of throwing that particular pitch.

Take No Code, for example; would you say, for you, that they're writing songs on that album that you don't feel play to their particular strengths, or is that album full of great songs you're not able to appreciate because it doesn't fit what you want out of PJ?

Both. But as I moved away from what I want towards what they are I appreciate them more. Although plenty of songs on No Code are technically what I want. My issues with No Code are lyrical (with some exceptions I don't think it's one of Eddie's best outings, though still good) but first and foremost with the more nasal Neil Young tone to his vocals. It's the 'version' of Eddie I generally like the least. I also like the songs to sound more hard hitting than many of these do. That's a question of taste. But there were, for a long time, issues of expectation that exacerbated this

[Strat]

Death to cynicism

[stip]

It's also funny in a way because JJ Abrams was a big Star Wars fan who came in to restart the franchise and now we have Wotman a big PJ fan with nowhere near the same level of pressure but a lot of eyes on him.

You've nailed it. Because I have become more jaded with regards to SW content, I let the inner critic fly with JJ Abrams, whereas with Watt, I'm far more open-minded because at some deep level I still connect so much with the earnestness of Pearl Jam.

This looks like the perfect space to share my 100% serious opinion that Last Jedi is either the best or second best Star Wars movie

[stip]

look, I am not saying future days is a masterpiece. But there is not a ton of daylight between sirens and black and the reaction from folks who cant hear the sirens seems (to me) to be grounded at least partially in problems with the thematic shifts - one is hopeless and one is sentimental. both are incredibly melodramatic songs, but one is acceptable in the conventional pearl jam narrative. these posts reinforcing that happen all the time.

RMers like to declare that there taste exists in a vacumn completely unfettered and unencumbered by the history and expectations we bring to the music. expectations that are deep and nuanced and formative and powerful and real. Thats how brains work. its how we use hurestics to form initial opinoons (which we cannovercome but it takes time and effort. I think this is one of the big ones, and Ive watched people manifest it on RM for twenty years (as well as the attendant denial - the fiction that we can ever approach pearl jam with a blank slate)

I mean, sure. Everyone brings their preconceptions, biases, preferences and years of listening to this and every other band to bear when listening to these songs. But at some point, I think people are able to craft opinions out of those preferences on what makes a good song.

And every band isn't capable of writing every kind of song at an equal level; if someone hears all the PJ songs in this so-called sentimental vein and finds them wanting, maybe they just have some mental hurdle that can't be overcome. Or maybe it's that, for them, Pearl Jam isn't capable of throwing that particular pitch.

Take No Code, for example; would you say, for you, that they're writing songs on that album that you don't feel play to their particular strengths, or is that album full of great songs you're not able to appreciate because it doesn't fit what you want out of PJ?

I sometimes wonder if this is what has made Pearl Jam's later career more lackluster commercially. There are a lot of fans who like Sirens, Future Days, Just Breathe, etc. and those seem to be Ed's influence and also the only thing that has resonated on the charts up until Dark Matter. Trying to be punk, rock, pop, has maybe diluted what Pearl Jam could be with more focus, or its just what makes them unique.

If Pearl Jam made a whole album of Sirens type songs what would happen? Would they be universally shunned or would it be viewed as more accessible to the mainstream? It's a weird spot to operate from.

As we've noted here many times with the roll out, some of it is just that the band doesn't seem to want to put in the work exposure takes. That's not to say they wouldn't like more people listening (I'm sure they would). but they clearly hate doing the work to stay consistently visible. Pearl Jam comes out of hibernation. It does not continuously exist. And they take so long between records now that it's hard to build momentum