Red Mosquito

durdencommatyler wrote:

Harry Lime wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Harry Lime wrote:Joey, I don't think you can see the forest for the trees.

Dynamite drop in, Monty.

No, I'm serious. This show is littered with major cause & effects, and it all adds up.

FYI, I had more connection with Cohle than I did Marty.

Of course it is. It's one of the show's biggest strengths. But that has nothing to do with the "feminist" argument.

And Cohle's just as shitty as Marty. I connect more with Cohle too, because I'm a nihilist. But that doesn't mean I have the luxury of overlooking the show's shortcomings. Because there are more than a few.

But it does have to do with the feminist argument. You say that these men (especially Marty) are not punished for their actions, but they are. Pointing out that Marty got to fuck the girl means nothing. It's the consequences of those actions that mean something. And it all adds up to punish him in the end.

What's your beef with Cohle, exactly?

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:Marty ends up sad and alone. He sits on his couch eating TV dinners, browsing online dating sites where he says he hasn't had much luck. The way he repeatedly treated his wife came back to bite him. It took him being "heroic" and getting put in the hospital to get his exwife and kids to come see him and actually be happy to see him. He is definitely punished, IMO.

But we also don't get to see the effect. There's no reason to think that Marty doesn't go out and fuck some young woman because he's a viral, attractive (even with his new gut), attractive man, on top of his game.

if he was doing that, the show wouldn't make a point to have him tell Rust that he's basically up to nothing and to actually show him and his solitary life.

Would the show also give him a deus ex machina and have him solve the case by chance and save Cohl's life?

well obviously that was because he cheated on and alienated his wife that he was allowed to do that.

Because that's the point I was making. Good work, Christopher.

obviously you weren't, but what you say has nothing to do with what i said

Okay. Then why comment?

because I'm sarcastic.

deus ex machina has nothing to do with the format the show had previously established about storytelling/truth. Marty doesn't say I am a lonely loser, but the shots obviously show a beaten man. This goes back to the established storytelling method of the shots showing the reality while the narration could be entirely false.

But deus ex machina ended the show; brought about the resolution. To ignore it but as "nothing to do with the format" is a mistake. Because it was a part of the format, in the end. And it's another reason why the show isn't the best on TV and further support of the shaking writing throughout.

And the narrative argument doesn't hold water because we've caught up to the narrative at that point. The unreliable narration doesn't apply after a certain point.

I feel like you are just being contrarian at this point. I didn't say that deus ex had nothing to do with the overall format, just in regards to the argument I was making about TRUTH. The narrative argument does too hold water for the argument I am making right now about Marty being punished for his actions. It was a flashback. The truth being Marty suffered. You said he doesn't answer for his treatment of his wife. I just showed you an example of how he did. You challenged that he could be out doing other things, except the show made a point of showing NOT doing those things. THAT is the argument I am making and your arguments against that haven't challenged what I have presented, hence my snippy remark previously.

There are multiple discussions/arguments happening here and everyone is playing their own angle.

I never said Marty doesn't answer for his actions, but I do think his punishments do not fit the crimes in the context of the debate regarding the way women are portrayed on the show. I stand by that. All of my previous arguments are framed by -- and should be seen through the prism of -- the argument Dev and Harry Lime presented.

And I don't recall saying "he could be out doing other things." I'm not sure what you mean by that.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:Marty ends up sad and alone. He sits on his couch eating TV dinners, browsing online dating sites where he says he hasn't had much luck. The way he repeatedly treated his wife came back to bite him. It took him being "heroic" and getting put in the hospital to get his exwife and kids to come see him and actually be happy to see him. He is definitely punished, IMO.

But we also don't get to see the effect. There's no reason to think that Marty doesn't go out and fuck some young woman because he's a viral, attractive (even with his new gut), attractive man, on top of his game.

if he was doing that, the show wouldn't make a point to have him tell Rust that he's basically up to nothing and to actually show him and his solitary life.

Would the show also give him a deus ex machina and have him solve the case by chance and save Cohl's life?

well obviously that was because he cheated on and alienated his wife that he was allowed to do that.

Because that's the point I was making. Good work, Christopher.

obviously you weren't, but what you say has nothing to do with what i said

Okay. Then why comment?

because I'm sarcastic.

deus ex machina has nothing to do with the format the show had previously established about storytelling/truth. Marty doesn't say I am a lonely loser, but the shots obviously show a beaten man. This goes back to the established storytelling method of the shots showing the reality while the narration could be entirely false.

But deus ex machina ended the show; brought about the resolution. To ignore it but as "nothing to do with the format" is a mistake. Because it was a part of the format, in the end. And it's another reason why the show isn't the best on TV and further support of the shaking writing throughout.

And the narrative argument doesn't hold water because we've caught up to the narrative at that point. The unreliable narration doesn't apply after a certain point.

I feel like you are just being contrarian at this point. I didn't say that deus ex had nothing to do with the overall format, just in regards to the argument I was making about TRUTH. The narrative argument does too hold water for the argument I am making right now about Marty being punished for his actions. It was a flashback. The truth being Marty suffered. You said he doesn't answer for his treatment of his wife. I just showed you an example of how he did. You challenged that he could be out doing other things, except the show made a point of showing NOT doing those things. THAT is the argument I am making and your arguments against that haven't challenged what I have presented, hence my snippy remark previously.

There are multiple discussions/arguments happening here and everyone is playing their own angle.

I never said Marty doesn't answer for his actions, but I do think his punishments do not fit the crimes in the context of the debate regarding the way women are portrayed on the show. I stand by that. All of my previous arguments are framed by -- and should be seen through the prism of -- the argument Dev and Harry Lime presented.

And I don't recall saying "he could be out doing other things." I'm not sure what you mean by that.

There's no reason to think that Marty doesn't go out and fuck some young woman because he's a viral, attractive (even with his new gut), attractive man, on top of his game.

Marty the family man loses his family because he treated women poorly. I think it fits, but thats just me.

Harry Lime wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Harry Lime wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Harry Lime wrote:Joey, I don't think you can see the forest for the trees.

Dynamite drop in, Monty.

No, I'm serious. This show is littered with major cause & effects, and it all adds up.

FYI, I had more connection with Cohle than I did Marty.

Of course it is. It's one of the show's biggest strengths. But that has nothing to do with the "feminist" argument.

And Cohle's just as shitty as Marty. I connect more with Cohle too, because I'm a nihilist. But that doesn't mean I have the luxury of overlooking the show's shortcomings. Because there are more than a few.

But it does have to do with the feminist argument. You say that these men (especially Marty) are not punished for their actions, but they are. Pointing out that Marty got to fuck the girl means nothing. It's the consequences of those actions that mean something. And it all adds up to punish him in the end.

What's your beef with Cohle, exactly?

I like Cohle, but I think he becomes a caricature by the end of the show. It's all so trite and rehashed. And, to me, the end is much more disingenuous than it is in something like LOST. The fact that people LOVE TD's ending but hate LOST's really rubs me the wrong way, for that reason. Cohle's revelation isn't earned. It's derivative and unearned. Which makes it sort of hallow. It's enjoyable in the way that endings are, and I'm not saying it's an inappropriate ending for the show, per se. But it is tired and forced.

Again, this is just one of the many things that keeps this from being the best show on TV, which was always my argument. Everthing I've said here tonight is framed in that. These arguments don't come up with the best of the best. That's my point.

wait, i thought it was already established that this isn't the best show ever? It's a good show and people love to speak in hyperbole about something that just finished up.

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:Marty ends up sad and alone. He sits on his couch eating TV dinners, browsing online dating sites where he says he hasn't had much luck. The way he repeatedly treated his wife came back to bite him. It took him being "heroic" and getting put in the hospital to get his exwife and kids to come see him and actually be happy to see him. He is definitely punished, IMO.

But we also don't get to see the effect. There's no reason to think that Marty doesn't go out and fuck some young woman because he's a viral, attractive (even with his new gut), attractive man, on top of his game.

if he was doing that, the show wouldn't make a point to have him tell Rust that he's basically up to nothing and to actually show him and his solitary life.

Would the show also give him a deus ex machina and have him solve the case by chance and save Cohl's life?

well obviously that was because he cheated on and alienated his wife that he was allowed to do that.

Because that's the point I was making. Good work, Christopher.

obviously you weren't, but what you say has nothing to do with what i said

Okay. Then why comment?

because I'm sarcastic.

deus ex machina has nothing to do with the format the show had previously established about storytelling/truth. Marty doesn't say I am a lonely loser, but the shots obviously show a beaten man. This goes back to the established storytelling method of the shots showing the reality while the narration could be entirely false.

But deus ex machina ended the show; brought about the resolution. To ignore it but as "nothing to do with the format" is a mistake. Because it was a part of the format, in the end. And it's another reason why the show isn't the best on TV and further support of the shaking writing throughout.

And the narrative argument doesn't hold water because we've caught up to the narrative at that point. The unreliable narration doesn't apply after a certain point.

I feel like you are just being contrarian at this point. I didn't say that deus ex had nothing to do with the overall format, just in regards to the argument I was making about TRUTH. The narrative argument does too hold water for the argument I am making right now about Marty being punished for his actions. It was a flashback. The truth being Marty suffered. You said he doesn't answer for his treatment of his wife. I just showed you an example of how he did. You challenged that he could be out doing other things, except the show made a point of showing NOT doing those things. THAT is the argument I am making and your arguments against that haven't challenged what I have presented, hence my snippy remark previously.

There are multiple discussions/arguments happening here and everyone is playing their own angle.

I never said Marty doesn't answer for his actions, but I do think his punishments do not fit the crimes in the context of the debate regarding the way women are portrayed on the show. I stand by that. All of my previous arguments are framed by -- and should be seen through the prism of -- the argument Dev and Harry Lime presented.

And I don't recall saying "he could be out doing other things." I'm not sure what you mean by that.

There's no reason to think that Marty doesn't go out and fuck some young woman because he's a viral, attractive (even with his new gut), attractive man, on top of his game.

He loses a lot. But where do we see that the impact of that lose affects him in any real way? Okay he cries in the hospital. Fine. He showed great regret for the fist affair too, but he still did it again.

The show -- one of the fault sf the show -- is that it gives us no reason to believe that Marty has learned the proper lesson from his experiences. What in the show leads you to believe that he isn't out to find a new girl to fuck? To me, the online dating stuff showed a guy who wasn't happy with the kind of pussy that made online profiles. Nothing more.

Mecca wrote:wait, i thought it was already established that this isn't the best show ever? It's a good show and people love to speak in hyperbole about something that just finished up.

Dev wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Dev wrote:tell me what show is better than this

Are you serious? Do you want like a list or what?

I dare you.

And that's what started this new round of discussions.

durdencommatyler wrote: To me, the online dating stuff showed a guy who wasn't happy with the kind of pussy that made online profiles. Nothing more.

That wasn't the tone of that scene. That scene existed to show his loneliness.

durdencommatyler wrote:

All of my previous arguments are framed by -- and should be seen through the prism of -- the argument Dev and Harry Lime presented.

.

The feminist argument against the show was uncalled for, and, for me, annoying. I think you missed the point the writer & director were trying to make, but you obviously think differently.

I've seen you in my dream, joey. We're going to do this again...

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:wait, i thought it was already established that this isn't the best show ever? It's a good show and people love to speak in hyperbole about something that just finished up.

Dev wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Dev wrote:tell me what show is better than this

Are you serious? Do you want like a list or what?

I dare you.

And that's what started this new round of discussions.

man, I should've paid attention to that, but you should know better than to tilt at the windmill named Dev

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote: To me, the online dating stuff showed a guy who wasn't happy with the kind of pussy that made online profiles. Nothing more.

That wasn't the tone of that scene. That scene existed to show his loneliness.

But the show did such a poor job with Marty and his misogyny that I read it the other way. Which, again, is a fault of the show and the writing.

Harry Lime wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

All of my previous arguments are framed by -- and should be seen through the prism of -- the argument Dev and Harry Lime presented.

.

The feminist argument against the show was uncalled for, and, for me, annoying. I think you missed the point the writer & director were trying to make, but you obviously think differently.

I've seen you in my dream, joey. We're going to do this again...

I just love women and think they deserve better.

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:wait, i thought it was already established that this isn't the best show ever? It's a good show and people love to speak in hyperbole about something that just finished up.

Dev wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Dev wrote:tell me what show is better than this

Are you serious? Do you want like a list or what?

I dare you.

And that's what started this new round of discussions.

man, I should've paid attention to that, but you should know better than to tilt at the windmill named Dev

That's a damn fine point.

I'm just pissed that KSU lost. That's really what all this is about.

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote: To me, the online dating stuff showed a guy who wasn't happy with the kind of pussy that made online profiles. Nothing more.

That wasn't the tone of that scene. That scene existed to show his loneliness.

But the show did such a poor job with Marty and his misogyny that I read it the other way. Which, again, is a fault of the show and the writing.

Ever think that maybe the problem was within yourself and not how the show presented it? I have no real basis in regards to who you are as a person to make that claim, but it seems like quite a leap to get that from the scene. Maybe you're just primed for it?

Honestly, guys, I really did love this show. I just think it has faults. Some major, some minor. But it's a damn fine show regardless. I hate that Dev made me battle against the thing tonight.

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote:

Mecca wrote:

durdencommatyler wrote: To me, the online dating stuff showed a guy who wasn't happy with the kind of pussy that made online profiles. Nothing more.

That wasn't the tone of that scene. That scene existed to show his loneliness.

But the show did such a poor job with Marty and his misogyny that I read it the other way. Which, again, is a fault of the show and the writing.

Ever think that maybe the problem was within yourself and not how the show presented it? I have no real basis in regards to who you are as a person to make that claim, but it seems like quite a leap to get that from the scene. Maybe you're just primed for it?

Maybe.

But, as I recall, I saw a lonely dude looking at the profile of an attractive older woman (by which I mean, woman his own age) and he dismisses the thing out of hand and continues eating his frozen dinner. To me, that very clearly showed a man who thought he was better than online dating. Or at least, better than the options he was being presented with. I saw a guy who wanted fresh young pussy not an accomplished woman his own age who was looking for a real connection.

Again, I think that was the show giving me that impression -- previous behaviours and whatnot -- but maybe that was my own baggage. If no one else saw that, then it's probably me.

k, I was pretty diplomatic and made an honest argument in here. no reason to throw me under the bus.

I was just razzing you, homes. Everything I did, I did to myself.

I saw a defeated man. Have you tried online dating? I have and at times it can be fun and exciting to get to know someone, getting to that point can be defeating itself. Perhaps that is just my own baggage, but that's how I read it.