Red Mosquito

harmless wrote: I like Lightning Bolt quite a bit, but however much of my life I've dedicated to it, I was always fairly convinced that the new Arcade Fire had a good chance of being better. But I don't need LB to be better than the new AF album.

I'm still trying to decide if I should be excited about seeing Arcade Fire in January

Rangi Guy wrote:

harmless wrote: I like Lightning Bolt quite a bit, but however much of my life I've dedicated to it, I was always fairly convinced that the new Arcade Fire had a good chance of being better. But I don't need LB to be better than the new AF album.

I'm still trying to decide if I should be excited about seeing Arcade Fire in January

You should be *very* excited about that. One of the best live bands around.

I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

matt reeder wrote:Remove his voice and substitute Chris Martin - would any of you actually like this?

How would you feel about Siamese Dream if it was sung by Bono instead of Billy Corgan? Your point seems obvious and redundant. Of course changing a core element of a song might cause someone to feel differently about it.

harmless wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

harmless wrote: I like Lightning Bolt quite a bit, but however much of my life I've dedicated to it, I was always fairly convinced that the new Arcade Fire had a good chance of being better. But I don't need LB to be better than the new AF album.

I'm still trying to decide if I should be excited about seeing Arcade Fire in January

You should be *very* excited about that. One of the best live bands around.

I still need to sit down and give them a proper listening to - I've only heard stuff in passing so far, so have no real opinion on them

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

Good post.

Put the record away for six months, come back to it, see what you think then. I saw PJ live for the very first time at Reading 2006. It was monumental, and little did I know they were "on their way out" in terms of the kind of records I wanted them to be making. But they were phenomenal live, so that year actually kicked off my fandom in a fresh way. By and large, though, because I live in the UK, it's been the albums that have cemented and sustained my fandom since 1991. They've made a hell of a lot of changes since then, and I've rolled with a lot of punches; so many of the records they've made have taken a lot of time to grow on me, even some of the early greats. So because I expect that, maybe it's easier to still give them time and attention. I appreciate that other people just loved earlier records instantly, and now PJ music doesn't do that for them, so that's it. But I guess I can acknowledge what you've said so well, that the nature of my fandom has to change, and be OK with that. I've only seen them live 3 times and I don't know if I'll ever see them again, 1) because they so rarely visit here, and 2) because I can't imagine being able to afford it now. So I take any enjoyment I can from any music they make.

Rangi Guy wrote:

harmless wrote:

Rangi Guy wrote:

harmless wrote: I like Lightning Bolt quite a bit, but however much of my life I've dedicated to it, I was always fairly convinced that the new Arcade Fire had a good chance of being better. But I don't need LB to be better than the new AF album.

I'm still trying to decide if I should be excited about seeing Arcade Fire in January

You should be *very* excited about that. One of the best live bands around.

I still need to sit down and give them a proper listening to - I've only heard stuff in passing so far, so have no real opinion on them

I'm probably not the best person to tell you what to start with, I love everything. But my favourite album is Neon Bible. Others prefer Funeral. But they have four albums now and they're all very good.

harmless wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

Good post.

Put the record away for six months, come back to it, see what you think then. I saw PJ live for the very first time at Reading 2006. It was monumental, and little did I know they were "on their way out" in terms of the kind of records I wanted them to be making. But they were phenomenal live, so that year actually kicked off my fandom in a fresh way. By and large, though, because I live in the UK, it's been the albums that have cemented and sustained my fandom since 1991. They've made a hell of a lot of changes since then, and I've rolled with a lot of punches; so many of the records they've made have taken a lot of time to grow on me, even some of the early greats. So because I expect that, maybe it's easier to still give them time and attention. I appreciate that other people just loved earlier records instantly, and now PJ music doesn't do that for them, so that's it. But I guess I can acknowledge what you've said so well, that the nature of my fandom has to change, and be OK with that. I've only seen them live 3 times and I don't know if I'll ever see them again, 1) because they so rarely visit here, and 2) because I can't imagine being able to afford it now. So I take any enjoyment I can from any music they make.

Is that the concert where Ed played iron man on the uke? Epic, if so.

SaturdayNightSeizure wrote:

harmless wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

Good post.

Put the record away for six months, come back to it, see what you think then. I saw PJ live for the very first time at Reading 2006. It was monumental, and little did I know they were "on their way out" in terms of the kind of records I wanted them to be making. But they were phenomenal live, so that year actually kicked off my fandom in a fresh way. By and large, though, because I live in the UK, it's been the albums that have cemented and sustained my fandom since 1991. They've made a hell of a lot of changes since then, and I've rolled with a lot of punches; so many of the records they've made have taken a lot of time to grow on me, even some of the early greats. So because I expect that, maybe it's easier to still give them time and attention. I appreciate that other people just loved earlier records instantly, and now PJ music doesn't do that for them, so that's it. But I guess I can acknowledge what you've said so well, that the nature of my fandom has to change, and be OK with that. I've only seen them live 3 times and I don't know if I'll ever see them again, 1) because they so rarely visit here, and 2) because I can't imagine being able to afford it now. So I take any enjoyment I can from any music they make.

Is that the concert where Ed played iron man on the uke? Epic, if so.

Yup. They were spot on, it was a fantastic performance.

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

All good points but one key ingredient is you are not as angsty, or starry eyed. As the older I get its rare that any artist, whether they are a new band, or an older band that im just discovering, will ever impact me the same way music did when i was 18. Doesnt mean i dont love it, but I cant be chasing that feeling i had when i was a young fueled up teen.

Kevin Davis wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Remove his voice and substitute Chris Martin - would any of you actually like this?

How would you feel about Siamese Dream if it was sung by Bono instead of Billy Corgan? Your point seems obvious and redundant. Of course changing a core element of a song might cause someone to feel differently about it.

Kevin, it's a stupid comparison. Even I can admit that. I was pretty steamed when I wrote that, though; I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this album. "Infallible" and "Pendulum" made me think of something Coldplay would have attempted circa 2003, but that's not really what I want from Pearl Jam.

Strat wrote:when i was a young fueled up teen.

This is the strat oral history we've all been waiting for.

matt reeder wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Remove his voice and substitute Chris Martin - would any of you actually like this?

How would you feel about Siamese Dream if it was sung by Bono instead of Billy Corgan? Your point seems obvious and redundant. Of course changing a core element of a song might cause someone to feel differently about it.

Kevin, it's a stupid comparison. Even I can admit that. I was pretty steamed when I wrote that, though; I'm having trouble wrapping my mind around this album. "Infallible" and "Pendulum" made me think of something Coldplay would have attempted circa 2003, but that's not really what I want from Pearl Jam.

My first thought, listening to "Infallible", was that it fused "You Are" and "Help, Help" from Riot Act and gave it a more upbeat pop chorus, a la more recent material. I think it smashes two kinds of Pearl Jam material together, which sounds really jarring at first. But I didn't think of Coldplay. As for Pendulum... I'm not sure how you reached Coldplay but it doesn't matter if you did.

Strat wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

All good points but one key ingredient is you are not as angsty, or starry eyed. As the older I get its rare that any artist, whether they are a new band, or an older band that im just discovering, will ever impact me the same way music did when i was 18. Doesnt mean i dont love it, but I cant be chasing that feeling i had when i was a young fueled up teen.

This is true. But with PJ angst is a huge part of the equation and my favorite PJ tends to be the most angsty. When I was a teenager the Ticketmaster-boycotting, Self-Pollution era PJ were heroes of mine not just for their music but their whole ethos, whether or not it was actually posturing. I love PJ most when they are angry and fighting. I'm having trouble reconciling how they sound now with how they sound now, even if I know that it's my problem and not theirs. My favorite eras of PJ are the Vitalogy tour and the Binaural tour, two times that probably rank as the saddest and most difficult periods in the entire existence of the band.

matt reeder wrote:

Strat wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

All good points but one key ingredient is you are not as angsty, or starry eyed. As the older I get its rare that any artist, whether they are a new band, or an older band that im just discovering, will ever impact me the same way music did when i was 18. Doesnt mean i dont love it, but I cant be chasing that feeling i had when i was a young fueled up teen.

This is true. But with PJ angst is a huge part of the equation and my favorite PJ tends to be the most angsty. When I was a teenager the Ticketmaster-boycotting, Self-Pollution era PJ were heroes of mine not just for their music but their whole ethos, whether or not it was actually posturing. I love PJ most when they are angry and fighting. I'm having trouble reconciling how they sound now with how they sound now, even if I know that it's my problem and not theirs. My favorite eras of PJ are the Vitalogy tour and the Binaural tour, two times that probably rank as the saddest and most difficult periods in the entire existence of the band.

That too, my friend, is my favorite period of the band

evenslow wrote:

Strat wrote:when i was a young fueled up teen.

This is the strat oral history we've all been waiting for.

Strat wrote:

matt reeder wrote:

Strat wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

Very few bands get better or manage to stay relevant with age. Most bands, even great bands, manage to reach a place over time where they are still putting out perfectly acceptable music that reminds you that 1) they're old; 2) you're old; 3) the music is perfectly fine, but it's not going to hit you in the same way it did when you were a teenager; and 4) the band isn't in that place either, and you shouldn't expect them to recreate their glory days. The problem is that you want the old band to put out something as good as they did when they were young and hungry, and maybe that's not possible. Maybe that music came from a point in the artist's life they never want to relive.

FWIW, I actually like a lot of S/T. It has some gigantic stinkers but that was the last time PJ felt like PJ for me. That could also be that I saw them at the Gorge and it was magical, so I'm remembering them at their best. The last time I saw PJ overall was Philly IV in 2009 and the bad taste from that show still hasn't entirely left me. I'm holding them to a high standard because I love them. They were probably my favorite band between 2001 and roughly 2007 and it's hard for me to come to terms with disliking something so much by somebody I love.

All good points but one key ingredient is you are not as angsty, or starry eyed. As the older I get its rare that any artist, whether they are a new band, or an older band that im just discovering, will ever impact me the same way music did when i was 18. Doesnt mean i dont love it, but I cant be chasing that feeling i had when i was a young fueled up teen.

This is true. But with PJ angst is a huge part of the equation and my favorite PJ tends to be the most angsty. When I was a teenager the Ticketmaster-boycotting, Self-Pollution era PJ were heroes of mine not just for their music but their whole ethos, whether or not it was actually posturing. I love PJ most when they are angry and fighting. I'm having trouble reconciling how they sound now with how they sound now, even if I know that it's my problem and not theirs. My favorite eras of PJ are the Vitalogy tour and the Binaural tour, two times that probably rank as the saddest and most difficult periods in the entire existence of the band.

That too, my friend, is my favorite period of the band

Vitalogy is my favourite PJ album. I love Binaural too, even though I couldn't get to a tour back then.

Kevin Davis wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Remove his voice and substitute Chris Martin - would any of you actually like this?

How would you feel about Siamese Dream if it was sung by Bono instead of Billy Corgan?

I'd probably think "holy shit Bono is singing some good fucking songs".

theplatypus wrote:

Kevin Davis wrote:

matt reeder wrote:Remove his voice and substitute Chris Martin - would any of you actually like this?

How would you feel about Siamese Dream if it was sung by Bono instead of Billy Corgan?

I'd probably think "holy shit Bono is singing some good fucking songs".

No kidding. That would be awesome. Also Chris Martin has a terrible voice. Ed's voice is something special and is an instrument itself.

Damn, every time someone mentions Coldplay I get angry remembering how good the song "Yellow" is.