Red Mosquito

Exactly.

VinylGuy wrote:

harmless wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

harmless wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

warehouse wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

harmless wrote:

Thejambi wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:Oh shit, PJ and Lanegan are so different....even the Trees are very different from PJ.
Im glad i have both, but Blues Funeral might be a better album just because its trying more than LB.

And yes, Alain Johannes is a great producer/musician.

They are very different. I guess thinking about the No Code era along with Jeff and Stone solo work, I could see PJ doing this music very successfully. I do enjoy Lightning Bolt but I may be getting a little fatigued on the urgency and anthem-ed nature of modern PJ. Which I admit is a little unfair considering that is Pearl Jam''s m.o.

Hearing an album like Blues Funeral just reminds me of the side of Pearl Jam that hasn't been followed as extensive.

Agreed. I really would love them to eventually get past this reaching for an anthem, grab four bar stools and just hammer out a low-key record with lots of low register from Ed. Also, more twelve-string acoustic. God it's making my ears happy.

yes, it would be nice to see them experimenting again. Leave the anthem thing a little behind and sit down and make a weird album...they could even rock out more. Hell who knows!

how many anthems are on this album?

and what kinda experimenting are you looking for? 6 string bass? bowed guitars?

i would say Sirens and LB...then maybe MYM, Getaway...what about YM?

I would like to see more acoustic stuff, more dark stuff..Pendulum is a good direction...and yea 6 string bass could be awesome...make a very heavy rhythm/groovy type of album. Like Clockwork maybe....

(Pssst... MFS has six-string bass and Pendulum bowed guitars, hence the reference)

Yeah i know and both of them are the " experimental " tracks i was talking about. More songs in that direction...MFS is heavy enough for me, i would like a whole album with that idea.

I keep thinking wouldn't it be cool if, after they've done all this pop stuff and got it out of their systems, they either did a sit-down acoustic record or a massively loud and aggressive one.

Yeah, i really want an aggressive one. And i dont mean it in a heavy VS type of album...i want a badass collection of songs.
Like The Dead Weather first album or QOTSA´S Like Clockwork. Those albums.

Of couse no Future Days there.

I genuinely can't see them putting many more Ed acoustic songs on their records, especially not in the same place every time. They must know it's starting to become too much of a convention, and not a likeable one.

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

That is the difference for me. With Lightning Bolt, I feel like PJ and I are in the same place in life. More of these lyrics speak to me than any of their albums since No Code. As for the music, it is giving me that same unfettered feeling of bliss that I used to get from them regularly.

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I think I'd argue that there are a few things on here that don't really sound like anything PJ has done before. It may not be as treading quite as much new ground as some of their past records, but there's still some unexpected stuff here.

I agree. I wasn't saying this is the same old, same old, not at all. A lot of the difficulties people are having is that PJ are sounding very new in a lot of ways people don't like. But in the wider context of experimentation, it's... not really. But we have admittedly had this conversation to death.

no one is talking about the "wider context of experimentation" we're talking about pearl jam.

OK. But which songs truly break out of PJ's sound though? And I'm not talking production bells-and-whistles.

I feel like the verses on Infallible were really something I hadn't heard from them before. They hardly ever put something outside of the guitars that out in front in the way that organ-sounding effect is on that song.

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I think I'd argue that there are a few things on here that don't really sound like anything PJ has done before. It may not be as treading quite as much new ground as some of their past records, but there's still some unexpected stuff here.

I agree. I wasn't saying this is the same old, same old, not at all. A lot of the difficulties people are having is that PJ are sounding very new in a lot of ways people don't like. But in the wider context of experimentation, it's... not really. But we have admittedly had this conversation to death.

no one is talking about the "wider context of experimentation" we're talking about pearl jam.

OK. But which songs truly break out of PJ's sound though? And I'm not talking production bells-and-whistles.

how many songs have they made that sound like pendulum? swallowed whole? infallible? the ed solo song they turned into a country song? the entire album has more keys than any previous album.

Hatfield wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

That is the difference for me. With Lightning Bolt, I feel like PJ and I are in the same place in life. More of these lyrics speak to me than any of their albums since No Code. As for the music, it is giving me that same unfettered feeling of bliss that I used to get from them regularly.

I get both points...for me, even if i dont like a song or an album, they always speak to me. i dont know why, but most of their songs speak to me. Maybe not now, but i know they will.
Thats why i keep coming back to them.

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I think I'd argue that there are a few things on here that don't really sound like anything PJ has done before. It may not be as treading quite as much new ground as some of their past records, but there's still some unexpected stuff here.

I agree. I wasn't saying this is the same old, same old, not at all. A lot of the difficulties people are having is that PJ are sounding very new in a lot of ways people don't like. But in the wider context of experimentation, it's... not really. But we have admittedly had this conversation to death.

no one is talking about the "wider context of experimentation" we're talking about pearl jam.

OK. But which songs truly break out of PJ's sound though? And I'm not talking production bells-and-whistles.

I feel like the verses on Infallible were really something I hadn't heard from them before. They hardly ever put something outside of the guitars that out in front in the way that organ-sounding effect is on that song.

That's nothing to do with the song, though, just the way BoB has mixed it. It's to do with the song's presentation more than the song itself. I agree, I really like that, but the song itself is basically a mashup between "You Are", "Help, Help" and "Tremor Christ", with a more upbeat/anthemic chorus.

harmless, if you know what "convention" means, then it shouldn't be too hard a leap to figure that people talking about experimenting are really just talking about a greater deviation from convention than the typical song provides.

I've hit a comfortable phase with the album. I know it's good now, where before I was still learning it. Swallowed Whole was the key, it was the one I didn't get on initial listens but the bridge brought me back to it and now it's tying the album together lyrically quite nicely. I already had Getaway, Sirens, Yellow Moon, and MFS as ones I was naturally going back to, and now the other batch is catching up in listens. The there are always the laggards (in this case SBM and LTRP) that I don't go back to that much but when they show up on my shuffle I enjoy. It's happening very naturally and this is usually how their albums have sunk into me, until eventually I give them more full album listens and I naturally "get" the whole batch as a collective record months later. I can comfortably mix them in with my other stuff and now it's on a pretty good rotation.

VinylGuy wrote:

Hatfield wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

That is the difference for me. With Lightning Bolt, I feel like PJ and I are in the same place in life. More of these lyrics speak to me than any of their albums since No Code. As for the music, it is giving me that same unfettered feeling of bliss that I used to get from them regularly.

I get both points...for me, even if i dont like a song or an album, they always speak to me. i dont know why, but most of their songs speak to me. Maybe not now, but i know they will.
Thats why i keep coming back to them.

I think people are primed to give a band they love and have loved for a long time a lot of rope...I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, it's just kind of human. That's why I don't think it's insulting to say that you (or I) may like something more because it's Pearl Jam. It seems obvious to me that I'll give a song a bit more of a shot if it's coming from my favorite band.

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I think I'd argue that there are a few things on here that don't really sound like anything PJ has done before. It may not be as treading quite as much new ground as some of their past records, but there's still some unexpected stuff here.

I agree. I wasn't saying this is the same old, same old, not at all. A lot of the difficulties people are having is that PJ are sounding very new in a lot of ways people don't like. But in the wider context of experimentation, it's... not really. But we have admittedly had this conversation to death.

no one is talking about the "wider context of experimentation" we're talking about pearl jam.

OK. But which songs truly break out of PJ's sound though? And I'm not talking production bells-and-whistles.

I feel like the verses on Infallible were really something I hadn't heard from them before. They hardly ever put something outside of the guitars that out in front in the way that organ-sounding effect is on that song.

That's nothing to do with the song, though, just the way BoB has mixed it. It's to do with the song's presentation more than the song itself. I agree, I really like that, but the song itself is basically a mashup between "You Are", "Help, Help" and "Tremor Christ", with a more upbeat/anthemic chorus.

I don't know how we could say that has nothing to do with the song. It's a part of the song.

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I think I'd argue that there are a few things on here that don't really sound like anything PJ has done before. It may not be as treading quite as much new ground as some of their past records, but there's still some unexpected stuff here.

I agree. I wasn't saying this is the same old, same old, not at all. A lot of the difficulties people are having is that PJ are sounding very new in a lot of ways people don't like. But in the wider context of experimentation, it's... not really. But we have admittedly had this conversation to death.

no one is talking about the "wider context of experimentation" we're talking about pearl jam.

OK. But which songs truly break out of PJ's sound though? And I'm not talking production bells-and-whistles.

how many songs have they made that sound like pendulum? swallowed whole? infallible? the ed solo song they turned into a country song? the entire album has more keys than any previous album.

You're answering a question with a question, which is weird, because in the back of my mind when I asked you my question, my answer to yours was "Plenty." I can look back and find the origins of all these songs, in earlier songs. That isn't a bad thing, and to an extent it was always true of Pearl Jam, but I don't deny that it's there.

As for the entire album having more keys than any other album, that's not "experiment", that's Brendan O'Brien's ego problems mixed with Ed's lack of discernment.

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I think I'd argue that there are a few things on here that don't really sound like anything PJ has done before. It may not be as treading quite as much new ground as some of their past records, but there's still some unexpected stuff here.

I agree. I wasn't saying this is the same old, same old, not at all. A lot of the difficulties people are having is that PJ are sounding very new in a lot of ways people don't like. But in the wider context of experimentation, it's... not really. But we have admittedly had this conversation to death.

no one is talking about the "wider context of experimentation" we're talking about pearl jam.

OK. But which songs truly break out of PJ's sound though? And I'm not talking production bells-and-whistles.

I feel like the verses on Infallible were really something I hadn't heard from them before. They hardly ever put something outside of the guitars that out in front in the way that organ-sounding effect is on that song.

That's nothing to do with the song, though, just the way BoB has mixed it. It's to do with the song's presentation more than the song itself. I agree, I really like that, but the song itself is basically a mashup between "You Are", "Help, Help" and "Tremor Christ", with a more upbeat/anthemic chorus.

I don't know how we could say that has nothing to do with the song. It's a part of the song.

Right, but it's an aesthetic part, to do with the song's presentation. Any song can be arranged and produced in hundreds of different ways, and a different arrangement / production on these songs would've revealed them to sound pretty much like very typical Pearl Jam songs (where they don't already). As I say, this is not a bad thing. What we have sounds different and refreshing, in places. But that difference is quite superficial. They've not written a new No Code here, where they completely reconsidered how they were writing songs in pretty much every way.

harmless wrote:As for the entire album having more keys than any other album, that's not "experiment", that's Brendan O'Brien's ego problems mixed with Ed's lack of discernment.

doesnt boom play the keys on everything except 'future days'?

digster wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

Hatfield wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

That is the difference for me. With Lightning Bolt, I feel like PJ and I are in the same place in life. More of these lyrics speak to me than any of their albums since No Code. As for the music, it is giving me that same unfettered feeling of bliss that I used to get from them regularly.

I get both points...for me, even if i dont like a song or an album, they always speak to me. i dont know why, but most of their songs speak to me. Maybe not now, but i know they will.
Thats why i keep coming back to them.

I think people are primed to give a band they love and have loved for a long time a lot of rope...I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, it's just kind of human. That's why I don't think it's insulting to say that you (or I) may like something more because it's Pearl Jam. It seems obvious to me that I'll give a song a bit more of a shot if it's coming from my favorite band.

Oh well maybe, but i wasnt talking about that. With them it might take me a while, maybe years to realize how good a song is. It happened with most of their albums. And they seem to have a song for different moments of my life there, just waiting....that´s why they are so powerful to me.

Example: Ghost is one of those songs i initially didnt care that hits me differently now.

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:As for the entire album having more keys than any other album, that's not "experiment", that's Brendan O'Brien's ego problems mixed with Ed's lack of discernment.

doesnt boom play the keys on everything except 'future days'?

I know Boom is on the liner notes, but I've no idea what he played. It would be interesting to find out but no one really knows. Still, even if BoB is only on FD, it's a pretty big blight on the album.

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

warehouse wrote:

harmless wrote:

digster wrote:I think I'd argue that there are a few things on here that don't really sound like anything PJ has done before. It may not be as treading quite as much new ground as some of their past records, but there's still some unexpected stuff here.

I agree. I wasn't saying this is the same old, same old, not at all. A lot of the difficulties people are having is that PJ are sounding very new in a lot of ways people don't like. But in the wider context of experimentation, it's... not really. But we have admittedly had this conversation to death.

no one is talking about the "wider context of experimentation" we're talking about pearl jam.

OK. But which songs truly break out of PJ's sound though? And I'm not talking production bells-and-whistles.

how many songs have they made that sound like pendulum? swallowed whole? infallible? the ed solo song they turned into a country song? the entire album has more keys than any previous album.

You're answering a question with a question, which is weird, because in the back of my mind when I asked you my question, my answer to yours was "Plenty." I can look back and find the origins of all these songs, in earlier songs. That isn't a bad thing, and to an extent it was always true of Pearl Jam, but I don't deny that it's there.

you crack me up. we're talking about a rock n roll band, you can find the "origins" of these songs all over the place, even in other peoples songs. and i totally disagree w. your explanation of infallible, its really not like anything they've written before. the verses have a creepy pop vibe, while the chrous takes a motown/r&b turn. sure, they've written creepy pop n r&b type stuff, but not like this, nor in the same song.

VinylGuy wrote:

digster wrote:

VinylGuy wrote:

Hatfield wrote:

matt reeder wrote:I think every band reaches a point where they start losing a healthy portion of their fans. People change, and it's like a lot of friendships - sometimes you stick with it, and sometimes you grow apart. To me, PJ is like the friend who you still love to hang out with but you realize you are in a totally different place in life. Sometimes it works but sometimes it's awkward.

That is the difference for me. With Lightning Bolt, I feel like PJ and I are in the same place in life. More of these lyrics speak to me than any of their albums since No Code. As for the music, it is giving me that same unfettered feeling of bliss that I used to get from them regularly.

I get both points...for me, even if i dont like a song or an album, they always speak to me. i dont know why, but most of their songs speak to me. Maybe not now, but i know they will.
Thats why i keep coming back to them.

I think people are primed to give a band they love and have loved for a long time a lot of rope...I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing, it's just kind of human. That's why I don't think it's insulting to say that you (or I) may like something more because it's Pearl Jam. It seems obvious to me that I'll give a song a bit more of a shot if it's coming from my favorite band.

Oh well maybe, but i wasnt talking about that. With them it might take me a while, maybe years to realize how good a song is. It happened with most of their albums. And they seem to have a song for different moments of my life there, just waiting....that´s why they are so powerful to me.

Example: Ghost is one of those songs i initially didnt care that hits me differently now.

It's the same for me. That's why I don't get why "Listen to it more times and let it sink in" has become such a joke around here. It's how I've always experienced Pearl Jam. The only albums I loved right away were Ten and Vs.

Apologies if this has already been posted but there was a half decent feature in The Sun today. Double page spread, interview with Ed and they give LB 5/5.



Half decent interview, Ed even compliments the interviewer at one stage for asking a good question . Not sure if it's available in full online anywhere.


Nice misheard Sirens lyrics. Ed putting "overwhelmed" into 2 lines obviously confused them...